How To Create Your Own Chamber Of Commerce (As A Local Marketing Strategy)

Michael Grider: Probably the most successful thing that I've ever run is a Buyers I'm Helping ad. I stopped counting. There was one point in time where it was just, weekly, when I got with my account manager, she would say, “Hey, what's going on?” I'm saying, “I got another meeting off this ad.” I cannot go quantify it now, but I made a list of leads from my buyers. This was at the height of the seller's market when in Blount County, there were 42 listings.

Tim Chermak: This is The Platform Marketing Show, where we interview the most creative and ambitious real estate agents in the country, dissect their local marketing strategy, and get the behind the scenes scoop on how they're generating listing leads and warm referrals. We'll dive into the specifics of what marketing campaigns are working for them, how much they're spending on those campaigns, and figure out how they have perfected what we call The Platform Marketing Strategy. This is your host, Tim Chermak. I'm the founder and CEO of Platform. I love marketing and I talk too much, so let's dive in. 

Tim Chermak: Hey guys, it's Tim Chermak. Welcome back to another episode of The Platform Marketing Show. I'm here today with Michael Grider from Tennessee. Michael, welcome to the show. 

Michael Grider: Thanks for having me. 

Tim Chermak: Michael is in Blount County, Tennessee. We just finished talking about this before we hit record. It's spelled Blount, but it's pronounced blunt. I’m going to have to remember to say “blunt” County, Tennessee. It's near the Knoxville area, but it's not really Knoxville proper. Michael got licensed in 2018, was his first year. I think you said you sold about a million dollars of homes in your very first year in 2018. You weren't really at full time all in. 2019 was your first year, you really went into real estate. You did about $4 million. 

Tim Chermak: You can fact check me on this, but I believe it was December of 2019, you decided to start the Platform marketing strategy. The last couple of years, your business has grown to, I think, nearly $10 million in sales volume. I know when we were chatting earlier, you said that last year, you did 32 total transactions. You can track 13 of those 32 transactions were directly attributable to the Platform marketing campaigns. On average, over one a month was directly coming from Platform. 

Michael Grider: That's right. I told you this, it's been great for me. I can track the success and I'm about that. I look at numbers. I'm not doing things that are not working for me. This works for me. 

Tim Chermak: Was this the first ever marketing program you ever tried or had you tried Zillow leads before or anything like that? 

Michael Grider: For real estate, this is the only thing I've done. One of the big caveats I would tell anybody is I don't know what else would happen if my money went a different way. I know that in looking at what happens here, it's working. The return on my investment is there. I don't know what else is out there. There'll be little things that I try here and there. I've done some mailing and, obviously, I targeted neighborhoods and audiences and things like that. None of that's been concerted or consistent. This is my marketing plan. 

Tim Chermak: How much do you typically spend a month, Michael, on your ads with Platform? What's the actual ads budget in a typical month? 

Michael Grider: It's two things. I've worked with my account manager and we say that $600 is the number where I want to be, but it's really closer to $1,000 or $1,100, is where we end up. That's through some things like saying, “Hey, with listing tours, I want to promote that further,” or if there's ever a big ad that we put a lot of work into, they put a little bit extra money behind that. I start at $600, adjust as needed, and average is out to somewhere around $1,000. 

Tim Chermak: Okay, cool. You've been at Platform now for all of 2020, 2021. We're nearing the end of 2022 here, almost 2023, so really, it's been almost three full years, which many agents listening to this podcast, you might not realize that it's incredibly rare for a real estate agent to stick with one marketing program for three years. 

Tim Chermak: Most agents, when they try something, whether it's Zillow leads or Realtor.com, maybe they're getting leads from Boomtown, or they sign up for a Curaytor or Ylopo or whatever, usually they last six months or maybe they might give it a year and then they quit. It's pretty rare to stick with something for three years. Clearly, you must feel at some deep level, this is working. What would you say are the most effective ads that you've run that make this Platform strategy seem to work for you? 

Michael Grider: That's a great question. I'll back up to something else you said before I answer to say people stick with things that work. When you don't see results, that's when you bounce. Consistency is key. It's just like this job. If you don't show up and do the work every day, then you'll be one of the whatever percentage of agents that turns over because you didn't have success. You'll get out of things what you put into them. 

Michael Grider: There have been some ads over the years that have been really fantastic. That's what I love so much about Platform, is that I'm not a creative guy. I love marketing. I love sales, been doing them all my life, but don't ask me to come up with content. You guys bring it to me and then I get to put my touch on it, which I love. That's just enough. 

Michael Grider: There are a couple of things I liked. One of the first ones I did was the Ducks in a Row ad. The way it worked out when I went to record that one day, I had my 11-year-old son with me and we were standing on a bridge. The wind was blowing and it's raining and we worked and worked and worked for him to toss me these little yellow rubber duckies while I get my words right and try to focus on catching this while I'm still talking. It was a fun ad to make, but it was early enough in my Platform career that not everyone around me knew what I was doing yet. 

Michael Grider: Every agent in town who I know loved that ad and came to me and said, “Oh my gosh, that's so brilliant.” I said, “I know, I'm so brilliant.” I just took full credit. That was, I guess, like a coming out party for me with this marketing splash in my town. I got a lot of recognition, a lot of people took notice and talked about it. It's so informative. That's part of what I like about it. Yes, it was fun. It was visually stimulating. People were going to pay attention to it. At the same time, it was loaded without you. That's what our ads have to be. You just have sizzle and no steak, then you're going to be lacking something.

Tim Chermak: For those listening, Michael, who have no idea what you're talking about when you say the Ducks in a Row ad, would you mind explaining just what the big picture, idea what is the Ducks in the Row ad? 

Michael Grider: It's a great ad. It's really geared toward buyers the way that I did it. It was to say, “Listen, so you're thinking about going out looking for a house. Let's make sure that you got all your ducks in a row. Have you talked to a lender? Have you figured out what your budget is? Have you decided on an area that you want to be? Have you got your ducks in a row so that when you go out and find a house you like, you're in a position where you can compete for and potentially win it?” 

Michael Grider: It set me up as an expert who was asking the right questions, who knew how to steer people, but then who it captures are the folks who maybe you're saying, “I don't know that I do have my ducks in a row. Maybe I need to talk to this guy to figure out what I need to be doing to get myself in a position to go out and buy a house because that's ultimately what I want to do.” It also would attract people who said, “I don't know who to talk to. What do I do next?” It's been so long ago now. I couldn't tell you what kind of success came from it, but it was a memorable ad that was fun to do. I know it stimulated quite a bit of conversation. 

Tim Chermak: Obviously, we're using physical rubber ducks in the video to make it visually interesting. Everything you just said there, agents say that stuff all the time. “Hey, if you have any questions, contact me. If you don't have your mortgage pre-approval, I can connect you with whatever.” It's not as if the substance of the ad is anything that other agents haven't said hundreds of times before. I think that's the mark of a creative ad, is that you're taking timeless messages and finding a new creative way to say those things that actually grabs people's attention. 

Tim Chermak: One thing that we talk about a lot internally at Platform is that, yes, it's helpful sometimes to look at the metrics on ads, what's the internal view rate, how long are people watching the video, how many clicks did it get, how many comments or shares, or all those social media metrics. That's interesting maybe to compare different videos or different ads to each other. The most important metric that does not show up in Facebook ads manager or Instagram or YouTube or Google or wherever you're advertising is, frankly, how many people in real life told you they saw the video and they thought it was cool or they mentioned, “I loved that post you did the other day,” whether it's a photo or video, especially in the context of being a local business owner. 

Tim Chermak: As a realtor, you're not a national brand. You're just trying to be famous in your specific community. Frankly, it's almost like, “Who cares what the digital marketing metrics are of the video? I would way rather have not very impressive metrics on a video, but have two or three people tell you in real life, “I saw that video. That was so great.” That's really a lagging indicator that there's probably dozens and dozens of people who thought that video was awesome, but they just didn't tell you. 

Tim Chermak: Anytime you have people in real life telling you, “I love that post you did. That was so informative,” or “That was so funny or clever or cute or whatever," that's always the best possible feedback you can get from an ad. If you think about all the other businesses maybe you follow online, especially local businesses, how many times have you ever complimented them on an ad? 

Michael Grider: It's pretty rare. There's a lot of noise out there. Things don't stand out, so when you can, and just to circle back, this was somebody physically throwing yellow rubber duckies at me while I'm talking and walking. I'm setting them in a row and leaving you with a question, “Are your ducks in a row?” It definitely grabbed attention. Everybody was talking about it. That's what made it one of my favorites. It did exactly what you said. It got people to come to me and say, “Hey, I noticed you.” That's, I think, about one of the most important things you can say to a person. 

Tim Chermak: That's really what good advertising should do, especially in an industry like real estate. We all do the same thing. Every realtor likes to think they're better than other realtors or whatever. You have more designations or certifications or more experience or whatever. At the end of the day, realtors do the same thing. You advise people. You negotiate contracts. You give the listing strategy. You advise your buyers on neighborhoods or what to offer, all that, you all essentially do the same thing. If your pitch is simply like, “I do the same thing as other people, but I do it slightly better,” that's not very creative because everyone's going to say that. Finding a way to communicate, I think, your market wisdom and your knowledge in a creative way is what gets you to stand out. That's at the core of what we teach at Platform. 

Tim Chermak: You mentioned this Ducks in a Row video. Are there any other posts you've ever done, whether it's lead generation or retargeting photos or videos that stand out in your mind over the last several years of, “Hey, that post seemed to do really well because people were actually telling me that in real life?”

Michael Grider: One of the things that I believe about sales, and this is all sales, is that I can sell what feels real to me, what feels authentic to me. Those are the kinds of ads that I like. Those are the kinds of messages that I like to share. Probably the most successful thing that I've ever run is a Buyers I'm Helping ad. I stopped counting. There was one point in time where it was just, weekly, when I got with my account manager, she would say, “Hey, what's going on?” I'm saying, “I got another meeting off this ad.” I cannot go quantify it now, but I made a list of leads from my buyers. 

Michael Grider: This was at the height of the seller's market when in Blount County, there were 42 listings. We were at 700-something real estate agents, 42 listings in the entire county. Yes, it really bottomed out here. I'm able to say, “Hey, I'm helping all these people. Here's what they're looking for. If you're thinking of selling this or if you know someone who's thinking of selling this, please give me a call.” That opened so many doors for me. It worked, I think, because it was real. 

Tim Chermak: It just looked authentic. 

Michael Grider: Yeah, and the picture that went with it was pretty funny. I laid on the ground and held up a “Help Wanted” sign and made a face that really expressed exactly how exasperating it was at that point in time to try to help somebody find a house because it was really difficult. I told real stories. These were actual real clients who I was trying to work with. I just put a list of 10 out there and said, “This person is looking for this.” I said a little something about the individual, a little bit about what they needed, and I told their budget and all those things. I had sellers calling me. I had agents with pocket listings calling me. I had other sellers telling me how meaningful it was to see that I was actually spending money to support my buyers and try to find something for them. 

Michael Grider: That all went toward A) branding me as someone who cares, showing that I'm going the extra mile to try to find things even when there's nothing out there publicly that they can see themselves, and every agent in town who has a digital presence has tried to mimic this. Again, that's another sign of success. When people try to copy your strategy, you know that somebody believes it's working. 

Tim Chermak: Other agents in town are actually almost starting to copy your ads now because they see it working?

Michael Grider: That one specially because it's easy. Everybody can make a list of the things that they need for their buyers. Not everybody is willing to promote it the way that we do within the Platform system. It's not going to be as effective, but yeah, I've seen that post all over the place. Of course, I'm friends with other agents on social media. I see what they do. I see them trying to do what it is that we do. Good luck to them. I wish them the best. I'm flattered. As long as I'm continuing to help my people, I'm not worried about it at all. 

Tim Chermak: Really, what that post is, again, for people that might be listening where they're like, “What are you talking about this Buyers I'm Helping ad is?” we use all sorts of different photos for this depending on where the realtor is and what your market is. Some people would stand in front of a stop sign because the stop sign is just a visual. It's like, “Hey, stop scrolling and read this ad typing.” Other people, like you said, you help up a cardboard sign, almost like a homeless person, that said “Help Wanted” and you just have this exasperated look on your face like, “Please help me.'' 

Tim Chermak: The actual ad copy of the ad is, “I'm working with these five families right now. Here's what they're looking for. If anyone can help me out, please let me know.” Underneath that, it gave bullet points of, “The first family is looking for a home that has at least four bedrooms, two and a half baths. They want master on the main floor or whatever. Their budget is $320,000 or their budget is $450,000 or whatever.” You just listed out five different buyers you were working with. 

Tim Chermak: Essentially, the implicit call to action of the ad is, “If you know anyone thinking of selling that might match one of these, please let me know. I already have a buyer for you.” As you said, that both attracts potential listing leads to contact you, but it also attracts buyer leads. They know that, “Wow, he's actually going above and beyond to find listings that aren't even on the market to serve his buyers.” 

Tim Chermak: Frankly, most agents don't do a whole lot more than what buyers can do on home at Zillow. They just look at what's on the MLS. People wonder why do so many people think that real estate agents are overpaid in a hot market? That's because, frankly, a lot of what buyers agents do, people can do at home on Zillow. If that's all you're doing, is just looking what's on the MLS, you're really not serving your buyer clients the way that you should be. I think what you did gives perfect proof that, “Hey, I do give a higher level of service than other people.” That's going to attract clients to you. 

Michael Grider: If you carve up the pie of all the houses in Blount County, 42 were listed. That means that thousands upon thousands upon thousands were not. This was my way of reaching the rest of the pie for my buyers. I had people I was working with come to me and say, “Hey, are we number three? Are we who you described as a cool young couple?” I was like, “Yeah, it was a real stretch. You're not that cool. That was you number three on my list.” 

Michael Grider: I got listings from that. I did off market deals from that. There were wins for my clients. There were wins for me that maybe didn't pan out for one of the clients on that list, but did for someone else because I now brought a house to market that was on the fence, maybe going to come, maybe not. They found out that there were people who wanted it and so there they are. It was a huge win-win. That's one of my favorite aspects because it's so authentic. It was so genuine. It was just real. It resonated with people and pull houses on the market that weren't coming and got things for people that were looking, so win-win. 

Tim Chermak: I think it's important too, just to emphasize that when we say that we're advertising on social media, it's not just about getting comments or likes or shares or engagement on social media, but you're actually able to track direct closings where it's like, “Hey, I got this listing or I got this buyer specifically because of this post that I did or that post that I did.” That's what makes this Platform strategy so valuable is that, yes, you'll probably get a bunch of engagement, random likes and comments and video views on your content, but it's also driving direct business that you can look back. 

Tim Chermak: I know you said last year, you had 32 closings. 13 of 32, you can just directly track back to a Platform marketing campaign. Most people have no sense of the ROI of their social media if it's anything above zero. They're like, “I don't know. I just post random stuff and a couple people like it or comment.” They're not really holding it accountable to actually create business results. I know that in your notes, I saw there was a lead, I think, who came from Platform that's now referred, is it five people to you or six people to you or something like that? A lead that came in at, I don't know if it was 2019. 

Michael Grider: It was the long game with her. It's a fun story when you live in a smaller area like mine, these things happen. This lady working with some other agent, I don't even know who, bought my father-in-law's house. It was a historic house in a beautiful part of town that you know that house when that street people say, “Oh yeah, that house.” 

Tim Chermak: She was not working with you though, as the agent. 

Michael Grider: Correct. She bought that house and then somehow came to me through Platform. We started a conversation as you can do if you follow up with your leads. It's so long ago now, I don't remember, but it started with her saying, “Hey, I've got a friend who, if you could help them find something in the area, she wants to move near where my family lives.” I said, “Yeah, okay. Sure.” That turned into nothing. I showed her a bunch of houses. Her friend decided not to move. No big deal. Flash forward, and this lady who now sees me as her agent, I've become her agent just from us talking even though she had one previously. 

Tim Chermak: Again, exactly, even though when she bought that house, it was not with you. It was with another agent. 

Michael Grider: Exactly. Over time, she comes to see me as her local agent. She knows that I'm in the area. Our kids go to the same schools. We've got some common interests. I actually had a personal house, a flip that I did last year, that I was trying to decide if I was going to move into it after I flipped it or if I was going to sell it. She said, “Hey, I've got some friends. I feel like it would be pretty good for them. Can they see it?” I said, “Sure.” They came in, they bought this house from me. I sold their house as part of it, so a couple of transactions there. 

Michael Grider: Earlier this year, this lady bought a second home for her family. It's a cabin up in the mountains. We back up to a national park in Blount County, and so a lot of people have cabins out in the woods near the streams and in the mountains that they go to. She bought one of those. A couple of months later, she referred me to another individual who's selling in her neighborhood. I took both sides of that transaction. I was going to list it, but ended up selling it to one of my clients instead. We’re already at a handful of transactions there. She is selling the house that she bought with another agent. Right now, it's under contract and we'll close on it next month for $875,000. I told you my average price point’s $350,000. That's 2x that. That's a great selling, that she's buying a house over $900,000 in the neighborhood. Two more transactions coming out of this, all goes back to one person who I never would have known if she didn't come to me through Platform. 

Michael Grider: Yes, I can absolutely track things back to this and wouldn't be doing it if I couldn't. One of the phrases that we use around here is fuzzy ROI. That made me really uncomfortable whenever we got started with this. I've got a master's degree in marketing. I believe that metrics are a big, big part of it. I was intent on being able to track the success that I had and I knew that I would take it to task. if I didn't see results, then it would have been like one of those other things you described for doing this six, eight months and moving on to something else. I've got the results. I believe in what I'm doing. I see the outcomes, and so I'm all in.

Michael Grider: A story that came up recently was that I was looking at another mode of marketing. There was a company that came to me and, honestly, I really liked the business plan. It felt like it would be very complimentary to what I'm doing with Platform because it's super non-digital. I thought, “Wow, they could really round things out.” I went pretty deep with them. We went to a hardcore analysis. They did this thing that salespeople do that I hate, which is, “We're going to have a meeting and you're going to make a decision. It will be yes or it will be no. If it's no, we don't talk to you for a couple of years at least, maybe never. This is your one opportunity.” 

Michael Grider: I'm on the phone with these guys for four hours and they were really hatching it out. They finally gave me the price. I knew instantly I can't do this and Platform. I can't do it. It's too much money. It's too much outlay. This can't happen. I said, “Guys, I need a minute.” I hit pause on a Zoom meeting. I walked upstairs of where my wife was playing with my son and I said, “Okay, babe. This is it. They finally gave me the number.” She said, “What do you think about it?” I said, “I love it. I love everything about it. I think it's amazing.” She said, "Is it worth it?” I said, “Probably. I think it is.” She goes, “What's the holdup?” I said, “I can't do it and Platform. I can't afford it.” She said, “I feel like you're really scared of losing Platform.” I said, “Absolutely. I cannot imagine someone else in my town having this platform that they're using and me not.” She said, “FOMO.” 

Michael Grider: Yeah, the FOMO is very, very real. This is not something I'm willing to give up. It's a gamble. Do I think everything they're pitching me would work? Yeah, I really do, but I know that this works. Maybe I'm conservative, maybe I'm consistent. I don't know, but I know I'm not crazy because what I'm doing is working. That's something I can stick with. 

Michael Grider: I walked back and got the phone and said, “I can't do it guys. I would have to give up something that's too important to me. That's not a decision I'm willing to make.” Again, not even a competitor. It would have been competing for dollars and then doing something, I think, really totally different than what we do. It was not a leap that I can make. I believe in this program and I see the results and so here we go. 

Tim Chermak: You would say that the market exclusivity of Platform is definitely something that's pretty important to you, that you're the only person in your area that runs this style of campaigns. 

Michael Grider: Oh yeah. Yes, absolutely. That is of huge value to me. I'm it. I have got this market and no one has the ability to reach it the way that I do. There's no way to, in my mind, tell me what the value of that is, but I know it's dramatic. It's absolutely a value to me. 

Tim Chermak: Yeah, it's so weird to me, honestly, that we're really the only marketing company that works with realtors that does this that I know of. I don't know any other company that does that. The reason is math. They want to have as many agents across the country as possible paying the money every month. If they do market exclusivity, that basically chokes off probably 80% to 90% of your total demand. 

Tim Chermak: Even right now, probably, I would say around 80% of people who contact Platform and are interested in signing up, we just have to tell them no. “Hey, we're so sorry. We already have a client in your area. We only work with one realtor per market area. Sorry. If it ever opens up, we can let you know. We can put you on a waiting list.” That's honestly probably 80% of people who contact us. I know that if we just took everyone, yeah, we could technically have way more agents signing up, but that's also not the type of business that I want to run where people sign up and they quit six months later, they quit nine months later, and then you just replace them with a bunch of other people. Where you're playing this volume game. Quantity, not quality. 

Tim Chermak: It's a lot more fun the way we have it set up where you've been with us for three years, we have clients who have been with us for five years, six years, because they see it working and they never want to quit. I just feel like that's the way a marketing company should be. You shouldn't be losing clients every six months. What does that say about the quality of your marketing if people are only willing to stick around for six months at a time? 

Michael Grider: It says something about the nature of the company. There's value in relationships. A relationship can only go so far if it's not exclusive. Think about the meaningful relationships in your life. A one sided friendship doesn't work. A marriage where one partner is committed and the other is not doesn't work. You have to have some reciprocal loyalty there. You guys show it on your side and then you can get it from my side. 

Michael Grider: I think that's how it wins. I said it before, it takes time. There's commitment to the process. There's consistency showing up every day. I don't think this is going to get less valuable for me. I can see it getting more valuable as my reach within this market just continues to increase and more and more people see my face and hear my name and know that this guy is out there working hard and making ways and it amplifies my effort. That's exactly what I want. Don't you ever change, Tim. I'm not going anywhere. You keep doing what you're doing. I'll be the only show in town. 

Tim Chermak: How many local small businesses have you been able to promote in the last couple of years? One thing that I actually really enjoy with Platform is that we get to use the excuse of, “Hey, we're doing marketing for realtors,” to promote all these locally owned small businesses across the country. It's just this beautiful win-win. It helps those small businesses, whether it's a small mom-and-pop diner or an ice cream parlor, or it's a coffee shop or a taco truck or whatever. You're shining a light on local small businesses in your community. In doing so, it actually benefits your brand as well. 

Tim Chermak: Over time, you start to cultivate this reputation as, “Hey, Michael knows everything that's going on in the area. He knows all the random taco trucks or up-and-coming restaurants that maybe someone hadn't even heard of yet.” You start to earn that reputation as not just being an expert on real estate, but being an expert on the community itself. I think that's that next level to where people want to work with you as their agent, if they view you as an expert on the community overall versus just being a real estate expert. 

Tim Chermak: I guess my question is, has that been fun for you? How many small business owners have you got to meet or how many small businesses have you got to highlight in the last couple of years? Are there any that stand out to you? 

Michael Grider: That number is measured in the dozens. I'm doing this at least once a month for a market update. I've been doing this for years. Those are some of my favorite ads too. Again, it's coming from a sincere place. It's authentic. It gives me a great excuse to go eat at places because I love to do that. 

Michael Grider: One of the best ones I had was a place called Bahia Bowls. It's a fresh fruit bowl where you go in, and so it's healthy. It's something that was very different than anything else that we had in town at the time. I got in there pretty quickly. It helps that I loved it. I went in and tried it out and said, “My goodness, this is fantastic. I love this.” Brought my family back one Saturday and then just sat there and took a picture of me eating this bowl. It came truly from the heart and I wrote up what this business was about. The owner loved it and she had given me permission. I talked to her in advance. She saw it. She loved it. She is also a Platform lead. 

Michael Grider: In the database, she's clicked on some of my stuff. She responds to everything I send out. We've talked at length about when she sells her house and what it is she's looking for. I've become her agent. It was a win on the real estate side. It was a win because I got to discover a local place. It's a win because I promoted this local business that I do care about. 

Michael Grider: I'll say this too, my life has changed a little bit from doing that. Before, yes, I was committed to my community and one good thing's for everybody, but I will actively choose a local small business over, you mentioned I'm just outside Knoxville, like maybe heading over to Knoxville where there are more options or things like that. Now, I was going out with my friends a few years ago, that's what it would have been like. “Hey, let's run over to Knoxville.'' Now, I'm saying, “No, this is my community. This is my town. I know everybody and everybody knows me. This is where I want to be. Let's go to this local establishment or this local establishment.” 

Michael Grider: I actively behave differently and don't think about it anymore. It's just what it is. If the conversation is coming up of where we're going this weekend, what are we going to do this weekend, it's here. It's my town. It's not to the big town next door with more options. Just in doing that and getting to know these business owners and getting to know their businesses and in falling in love with them, this is where I want to be. I've actually changed from doing it, too. 

Michael Grider: It wasn't a bad thing before, but this is who I am. This is my town. This is my community. It's where I want to be. There, again, it's very reciprocal in nature. I'm investing in them. That's not about me in any way, shape, form, or fashion, but there's good in that for me. It's almost like you put this out in your town and good stuff is going to flow back to you. I'm for that. 

Tim Chermak: Really, all that it is, this ad you mentioned, is you took a photo of yourself at this new restaurant. It was a photo, not a video. It's not like you came in with some fancy video crew in this big production. It was just a simple photo you took on your cell phone. You wrote up a couple of paragraphs about why you love this place, the story behind it, just really from the heart, why I give my authentic endorsement to this restaurant, “Hey, everyone here. You should go try this place. It's new and they need the support. Go check it out.” 

Tim Chermak: One of the secret shortcuts to growing your business with Platform that I don't think we talk about enough on the podcast is actually when you do these small business highlights or these market updates, it's an opportunity to actually build a relationship with the owner. That's one of the cool things you can do when it's a small local business versus some huge corporate conglomerate, is there's a very good chance if you go in there, you'll get to talk to the owner. They're often there. 

Tim Chermak: If you build a relationship with just a couple small business owners in your community as a second order effect of doing these local small business highlights, small business owners know everyone. They're the most networked people in any community. They know all the other small business owners because they attend chamber meetings or they attend BNI, or there's all sorts of random small business associations and meetups that local entrepreneurs tend to be a part of. If you develop a relationship with that person, they often introduce you to their other small business friend who knows maybe they own an insurance agency or they own a car dealership or a CrossFit gym or a dentist or whatever. 

Tim Chermak: In filming these small business highlight videos, what you can really think of it as, “Hey, if I film one a month, it's an excuse to build 12 strategic relationships every year with small business owners in the community,” and me doing a video or me doing a photo ad about their small business is just what you see on the surface, like the iceberg, but the real value is underneath the surface, is you're building 12 relationships a year with local small business owners and that will return so much more business to you in the future in the form of both getting their listings and helping them buy a house, the actual small business owners themselves, but also all the referrals they can send you. That will return so much more business than whatever, getting video views or likes or clicks on an ad. That's almost just an excuse to go meet and talk to the small business owner and build relationships. 

Michael Grider: You guys can't see this, but I'm nodding my head vigorously as Tim's talking about that because it's so true. I got it. Early on in my time with Platform, had a great chance to get thrown into the fire with that one. We ran an ad called, So God Created a Small Business Owner. It was pretty intensive. It was go out and meet 10 or 12 business owners. We ended up creating a collage in an ad that featured each of their businesses. That was a challenge to get out and talk to quite a few folks. I did that.

Michael Grider: One of the places that I felt really strongly I wanted in that video was a local bakery. It was just so visually appealing, that bakery, because they make these beautiful pies. I thought, “That's going to be really great in the mix to get that one in.” When I got in it, it turns out, I think I might have known this going in, but the owner is a guy that I went to grade school with. We hadn't talked in 30 years or whatever. I bet we've talked a hundred times since then. He was so blown away that I wanted to feature his business and I talked about it so glowingly and so kindly. It's really become a thing. 

Michael Grider: I was in his bakery about two weeks ago. One night a month, they cook real foods, like a whole meal, not just a bakery, not just pies and treats. We went in for that. He grabbed me and said, “Hey, I'm opening this other business. Will you please come out and shoot one of your videos? This is just ready to go.” I said, “Absolutely. I would love to.” That's the kind of thing that happens. That's community. That's two guys running businesses in a small town that we've created a friendship and he appreciates me and I appreciate him and we both appreciate what we bring to the table. That's the kind of thing that can come out of us. There is some magic that happens. 

Tim Chermak: The analogy I often use if I'm speaking at a conference or a Mastermind or something is when someone asks, “What is the big picture strategy? What are we really trying to accomplish with this Platform strategy?” Of course, you're generating leads and you're building a brand and everything, but those are really the effects. 

Tim Chermak: This is going to be something we actually discuss a lot at this year’s Mastermind, is I think people need to adopt the mental model of getting leads and building a brand are the effects of a cause. A lot of people think, “I'll generate leads as a cause. The effect of me generating leads is my business will grow.” Maybe that was true 10 years ago when it was easy as just uploading a credit card to Zillow and then you get email notifications when leads come in, like you can just buy leads. 

Tim Chermak: I think more and more today, as consumers become more sophisticated, they're doing more research, they're looking up which agent they want to work with, they need to come to you. You want leads contacting you like, “Hey, I want specifically to work with you, Michael.'' If that's going to happen, I think lead generation is the effect of good marketing. Marketing is the cause, lead generation is the effect of that cause. 

Tim Chermak: What does that cause actually look like? It's promoting your community and being a champion of the community. You said this small business owner has almost become a friend. Now, he's opening another small business. He immediately thinks, “You know what? I've got to get Michael over here to film one of these videos. These social media campaigns he does to promote local small businesses work so well.” You're already developing a reputation after only a couple of years as a realtor in your town. Again, to remind everyone listening, Michael hasn't been a realtor here for 10 years or 15 years or something. He's less than five years into his career as being a real estate agent here. Already, he owns the reputation of being a champion of his community. 

Tim Chermak: The analogy I often use at Platform Masterminds is think of your local chamber of commerce or your local EDC, like the Economic Development Commission or whatever your town or county calls it. Almost every town has something like this. They're in charge of economic development. Usually, it's like a quasi-government nonprofit organization. 

Tim Chermak: I hate these organizations. I think they do absolutely nothing. It's basically like an economic circle jerk where they charge businesses money every month. They charge monthly or yearly dues and then they say, “We're promoting the community.” They don't really do anything. They just have an annual golf outing. They do fundraisers. They have a couple of seminars or luncheons a couple of times a year. I don't see any progress being made. They really typically don't actually bring any new business to town. If they do, they're basically poaching it with just tax breaks to bring new businesses in. If that business gets offered a better tax break from some other county, then they'll go there. What you win them with is how you're going to lose them someday. 

Tim Chermak: I think what a Platform real estate agent should do is become what an economic development commission or become what your local chamber of commerce should have been all along, which is just authentically, enthusiastically supporting small businesses in your community. You're not asking for anything in return. You're not charging them monthly dues. 

Tim Chermak: A lot of small businesses, when you say, “Hey, I'd love to come film a video and support you,” they're often like, “What's the catch? How much do I owe you?'' They're skeptical because they think you're trying to sell them something. It's like, “No, I honestly just want to support as many of the local restaurants, as many of the local retail stores, any sort of small business here, I want to highlight you guys. I know that in the long run, the health of the community is the health of the small businesses.” 

Tim Chermak: No one moves somewhere because they love the franchises that are there. You would never move, pack your bags, and move your family across the country, because it's like, “Oh yeah, they got a LongHorn Steakhouse and McDonald's, and they have two Taco Bells, and they have a Costco.” No. Some of those can be convenient sometimes, I guess, living near a Target or a Walmart or I don't know. If you love Taco Bell late at night, it's cool, but no one moves or no one plants roots in a community because they love the national chains or the franchises. It's really the local restaurants and the local small businesses that give a community its sense of community. 

Tim Chermak: You, as a realtor, have this incredible opportunity if you think about the business model this way, “I'm going to constantly promote local small businesses where I live. I'll ask nothing in return because what'll happen is I'll end up getting paid via real estate commission of people who want to buy and sell with me because of all that work I did promoting the community.” 

Tim Chermak: Obviously, because that's indirect, that's why we have this phrase fuzzy ROI, is over the long term. It's hard to track where the random referrals come from. Sometimes, your phone rings and you honestly have no idea where that lead came from. They're like, “Hey, I want to sell my house with you. I think I'm buying a house.” You honestly don't know where it came from. Who knows? Maybe they saw one of your small business highlight videos a year ago or 18 months ago, and they've been following you ever since, but they never actually reached out. All I know is that after doing this for 10 years now, I've seen a direct correlation over the long term with the people who create the most local content in their community, their businesses grow the most. 

Michael Grider: There's a phrase that gets thrown around my office all the time. I don't exactly know where it started, but we're a little boutique firm, about 20-something agents. My father was married into a real estate family. My father-in-law was the founder and the president of the company for the longest time. I went to work with them when I was leaving corporate sales. One of the things that it comes up in every meeting is they say, “Okay, guys. Get out there, just show up and be awesome.” 

Michael Grider: What they mean is what we do at Platform. It's like, “Go be a part of the community, be out there. Let people see that we grow pretty great." That was the marketing strategy that started my firm. Platform is really a platform to do that. It's a chance for me to be in more places than I can be and for more people to see me there, then possibly I could see while I'm actually there. In so doing, it does support the community. That was one of the things, you really said that the health of the community is of core importance to me and operating in this community. One of the times I saw that most was during the pandemic. 

Michael Grider: When I was going into these small businesses and saying, “Hey, I want to promote small business in this way,” they were so grateful. Everybody felt that. Honestly, at least for me, as a real estate agent, I felt it way less than most. There was a 60-day period where things were iffy. After that, we just took off. Other businesses didn't have the same experience. When we were coming in and putting some promotion behind them, they so appreciated that and so loved and valued it. You're right, you get met with some skepticism because it almost seems too good to be true that somebody is just there to say nice things about you. 

Michael Grider: I was talking to a food truck guy the other day. I said, “Hey, I do these things. I give these ratings.” “Oh no. I don’t know. You’re a critic? You want to give a review?" I said, “No, I'm only going to say nice things, man. I really want your business to succeed. I'm for you. This isn't me coming in to be a critic. This is me coming in to tell everybody what a great job you're doing and a little bit of your story.” He said, “That sounds good.” I said, “Of course. It does sound good. Let's go.” People don't get it. It was a little bit skepticism, but then they love it after the fact. It is a way to be really sticky and touch a lot of folks and meet a lot of people. If you don't want that, then maybe you're in the wrong business. 

Tim Chermak: I have two quick questions before we wrap up, Michael. First is, are there any Platform heroes you have or agents that you look up to in the PlatFam where you're like, “Hey, I love every video they do,” or “I follow their page because this specific person always seems to put out really interesting content?” Are there a couple people that you look up to in the PlatFam community or that you just love following their content? 

Michael Grider: Fun story, we were vacationing in Hilton Head Island about a month ago. I did what everyone listening to this does, pull up Zillow and look at listings in the place that I'm visiting. You expect after you do something like that, that you're going to get hit with some Facebook ads of local realtors. I'm driving, and my wife, who's also a real estate agent, she was like, “Oh my gosh, they must have figured out that we were looking at real estate around here. I got this ad. It looks like one of your videos, really.” I said, “Who is it?” She says “Angela Musgrave.” I was just like, “Oh, yeah. She is the template for all the ads.” 

Michael Grider: Any time I do an ad, I watch hers first. I don't know. I've never talked to Angela. I feel very much like I know Angela and I don't even know where she is, but we were in Hilton, South Carolina. My wife saw an ad for Angela and it was part of that conversation. Again, that to me says the Platform's working. It knows a target audience out there and she's fantastic. I would be hard pressed to drop other names. 

Michael Grider: I watch things. I love that there are people that you know can count on. If I go on the Platform side on Facebook and ask a question, you're going to get responses from solid people. I'm trying to remember this other agent's name. I actually referred my sister, so this hits really close to home, to an agent up in the DC area. I want to say her name's Karen. 

Tim Chermak: Karen Hall, yep.

Michael Grider: We friended each other on Facebook after that. I look at all that she does and marvel at her. I'll just say that my sister couldn't say enough nice things. My message to Karen when I read it at hands off was like, “I don't want a referral fee or anything like that. This is my sister, just take really good care of her, please.'' My sister is absolutely raved about her. She's just so fantastic. Can't say enough nice things. I guess those are a couple of people that I look up to. I know there are more out there. 

Tim Chermak: Awesome. Angela Musgrave is actually an agent all the way up in Boise, Idaho. The reason you would have been seeing her ad, it would have been a retargeting ad if you've clicked on her page before. She's all the way up in Idaho. Karen's in Northern Virginia, the DC area. Both of them are absolutely amazing agents. They both put out really creative marketing using the Platform strategy. Actually, Karen's going to be giving a talk at this year's Platform Mastermind, coming up here in about a month in Florida. We have Karen as one of the keynote speakers this year. 

Tim Chermak: Cool, last question, as I said. That was the first question. Last question is, if someone's listening to this right now, Michael, and either they're thinking about signing up for Platform but they haven't pulled the trigger yet, or they recently signed up for Platform, let's say in the last couple months, but they haven't yet seen the results yet. Obviously, at the time we're recording this, mortgage rates are still escalating. They're somewhere around 7%-8% right now. 

Tim Chermak: Frankly, there's a very good chance by Q1 of next year that they're hitting 10%. Usually, there's about a two to four month delay with the 10-year treasury and how that drives the mortgage market. I could see rates hitting 10% at some point in 2023 if the Fed keeps hiking rates. Things are slowing down for a lot of agents. Their pipelines are drying up. A lot of agents are anxious right now. They're thinking, “Yikes. Did what worked a year or two ago, is that going to continue to work in the future? How do I build my pipeline in the midst of all this economic uncertainty?'' 

Tim Chermak: Based on your last couple years of experience working with Platform, what would you say to keep them encouraged and focused thinking long term? If you got going with Platform in 2020, you've basically only ever known a weird crisis economy. We've been in lockdown, pandemics, all this stuff, the entire time you've been working Platform. You've actually really never been with Platform in a somewhat normal year. What would you say to someone who's just feeling anxious right now and they need some encouragement to think long term? 

Michael Grider: I've never been in real estate in a really normal year. It's been a wild ride. It's a timely question. I actually talked to a guy last week. He was thinking about it. What I said to him was a couple things. I said, one, the way that I got here is that it worked on me. First off, give me a little grace here. It was 2019, we've all learned a lot since then, but I was texting and driving. I shouldn't be, and I'm working on that. 

Michael Grider: I saw this ad on Facebook, and I want to say I was sitting in a red light and I clicked it. It was for a book, High-Hanging Fruit. I thought, “That sounds clever.” I said it was free, so why not? Before I pull out from the stoplight, I've already got a text that says, “Hey, I just sent you the book to your email.” I thought, “That's cool. They personally followed up to make sure I got the free book.” From there, our conversation started and here I came. 

Michael Grider: It worked on me, and you know what? People who are in sales and marketing are either the easiest people to sell markets to or the hardest. I think I'm the hardest. I think I'm a difficult audience, and I went, “Man, this works. It could work.” I told that story to the guy who was thinking about it. I said, “I'm sure that what you're wondering is if you can handle the cash outlay. ‘Can I handle the cash outlay every month when I've not really budgeted for marketing in the past?’ I'm really going to challenge you to not think about it as an outlay. Think about how much more you're going to bring in monthly.” 

Michael Grider: Yeah, maybe it's not month one. Maybe it's not month two. If you stop at the end of the year and look back, I bet you'll see it. I would bet on that for you because I'm betting on it for me and for my family. I feed a few mouths and that's important to me. If I didn't think it was going to work and put more money in our pockets than it took out, I wouldn't be doing it. 

Michael Grider: That's why I track the numbers and say, “It does work.” Looking at it, just the uncertainty in the future, what I'm saying about this industry in general is, the most fundamental thing in any capitalist economy is supply and demand and it's been out of whack for a long time, is still out of whack. There are not enough houses for the people who need houses. I am betting on that fundamental truth not changing. People are going to continue to need houses. There's going to continue to be a need for this and somebody's got to do it. 

Michael Grider: We've not been replaced by robots yet. I don't think that day is really coming, but it's certainly not here now. When they zig, we zag. Everybody is going to panic. They can go to their shelves if they want to. I am going to double down and I'm going to bet on myself. I'm going to bet on a very positive future. I'm going to be better positioned whenever the time is so that I can't keep up with all that I need to be doing. That's what I would tell anybody is just like, “Hey, I think fundamentally, we're in a pretty strong place. I bet that if you do the things right now that you need to do and you handle your business and you show up every day and you do it with excellence, you do it with consistency, you can position yourself really strongly for whenever the day comes that the phone starts ringing again if it ever stops.” Mine hasn't stopped. 

Michael Grider: Maybe two months ago, I was looking at pipeline and going like, “Okay, what's going to happen here because things are changing?” I know that. I don't know if everybody took a collective breath and then said, “Hey, it's still okay. Here we go.” December is going to be the biggest month of my career. I don't know when this will air, but it's November right now. November is going to be a great month. December is going to be the biggest of my career. I'm going to stick with what I'm doing that got me there. 

Tim Chermak: All right, you heard it right there from Michael Grider. I thought this has been a fantastic interview. Thank you, Michael. I think this is actually the first time we've ever spoken too. 

Michael Grider: I think so, yeah. 

Tim Chermak: I think when you joined Platform, you talked to Mitch, not me. I never even really had a conversation with you up until this point. Super cool to hear your backstory and your perspective on everything, the success that you've had. Thank you for coming on the show. Everyone, we’ll see you on the next episode of The Platform Marketing Show. Remember that the best defense is a good offense.