How To Get A 15X ROI With Listing Leads

Jae VonBank: People are recognizing that. They're seeing the ads, they're seeing it. And the ads feel organic, that's the one thing that the ads don't feel like an ad. 

Tim Chermak: This is the Platform Marketing Show, where we interview the most creative and ambitious real estate agents in the country, dissect their local marketing strategy, and get the behind-the-scenes scoop on how they're generating listing leads and warm referrals.

We'll dive into the specifics of what marketing campaigns are working for them, how much they're spending on those campaigns, and figure out how they have perfected what we call the Platform Marketing strategy. This is your host, Tim Chermak. I'm the founder and CEO Platform, I love marketing, and I talk too much. So let's dive in.

Tim Chermak: Hey guys, it's Tim Chermak and welcome back to another episode of the Platform Marketing Show. I'm joined this morning by Jae VonBank and Jae’s coming to us from Alexandria, Minnesota, actually my family's ancestral homelands. Jae, welcome to the show.

Jae VonBank: Hey, thanks for the invite.

Tim Chermak: So it's kind of weird. My family on the Chermak side came from Alexandria. My dad growing up lived in Alexandria his whole life and his adult life, really. And yet Platform has never had a realtor client in Alexandria, Minnesota until now. And so I've always thought it was weird that we have a lot of clients in small towns across Minnesota being that I lived in Wilmer, Minnesota when I first launched the company Platform Marketing, so I just had some, social connections, friends of friends, whatnot in various towns across Minnesota. So we have a pretty strong cluster of clients in Minnesota relative to some other states, but Alexandria, we never had a client.

And then I saw that you had signed up, a couple of months ago. And the reason I wanted to have you on the show, Jae, is that even though you've only been a client for, I think 90 days at this point, or maybe even less than 90 days. 

Jae VonBank: January 25th of 2024.

Tim Chermak: Okay, so actually less than 90 days at the point we're recording this. You've already created some pretty incredible results in your first 90 days, even though your first 90 days were, in the dead of winter in Minnesota. So I know you've had several listing leads come in, even some listings, I think that you can trace back to Platform Marketing campaigns. Before we dive into your story and your long term strategy, because by the way, I'll let everyone know, Jae's actually an engineer by trade, had a successful career at 3M. 

So he's a very analytical guy. We're going to talk about his strategic business plan. He analyzes everything and he knows his numbers. But before we get into all that, let's just start with what changes have you seen in your business in the last 90 days since you joined the Platform Marketing program?

Jae VonBank: Yeah. I would say the biggest change I've seen is the amount of content I'm getting on Platform on my social media, but people tying me between my Google online presence and my Platform Marketing combined or social media with Facebook. Combining those two where what's happening is people are calling me on my Google business page or they're calling me on Platform and they're able to basically overlap those two together.

Yeah, I've had some, I mean I would say the biggest change I've seen is I've now become more of a listing agent than I have a buyer’s agent. For the last three years as an agent, I have 90% of my transactions have been on the buyer’s side, so very few listings. So it's a very big change for me of understanding those dynamics of having to go through and understand, okay, I got to get my game up here and step up and Platform has allowed me that opportunity to get more presence.

Tim Chermak: And I think that's incredibly important right now. As we're recording this, I don't know when someone's going to be listening to this podcast episode, maybe a year from now or something, but the NAR lawsuit settlement just came out and it's really going to change probably how a lot of people interact with their buyer’s agents and the way commissions are paid and all that. And so if you can shift your business, obviously to bringing in more listing leads, that's only to your advantage as a realtor. 

And I think it's very interesting what you just said that you're seeing that, really the way Platform has helped you isn't necessarily that it's just bringing in a bunch of leads the way that you would buy leads from Zillow or Realtor.com, or I know you mentioned that you’ve done some business with Opcity over the last several years. 

Platform isn't necessarily a lead gen program as much as it's building your brand in an area where you notice that, hey, it wasn't that I was getting an incredible amount of business specifically from my Google profile or LSA ads or things like that. But it's the combination of Platform and your Google presence where someone would first find you on Google, right? And then they would go on social media and see that you have a really really strong social media presence now thanks to Platform. 

And prior to that, they wouldn't necessarily have been able to go on Facebook or go on various social media, YouTube, et cetera, Instagram, and see you on there. So if they might've found you on Google first, but then if they don't find you anywhere else, it's kind of this question of how legitimate is this guy, right? Is this guy actually credible if I found him on Google, but I can't find him anywhere else.

Jae VonBank: Yeah. That's the biggest thing for me was having that mirror image of each other, basically, where they're able to cross reference in that. I did try Zillow and Realtor.com and Opcity. I was doing well, however, the quality and the dynamics that I saw over the last two years has gone down and yeah, I saw the focus there. 

I'll be honest I would normally get two, three, four, maybe listing appointments a year for my first three years. And within the last, since January, I've had now 12 listing appointments. Got six of them under contract and I'm still working on four of the 12. I lost out on two just with my inexperience.

Tim Chermak: So really, the amount of listing appointment you had has greatly accelerated in the last 90 days since joining Platform.

Jae VonBank: Yes, completely. It has changed my dynamic of my business completely. I'm getting over from, and even some of my buyers are seeing it, people that I might go out to in the community, whether I'm at a social event. I hosted a bingo night with our local boat baseball association here a couple of weeks ago, people are recognizing that they're seeing the ads.

They're seeing it and the ads feel organic. That's the one thing that the ads don't feel like an ad. They feel organic and that's the greatest thing I would say that I'm seeing, I think the biggest compliment of all. And when I was working with Emily, your sister, of course, as my coach.

Tim Chermak: Yeah, yeah, yup.

Jae VonBank: It’s the things that are happening within my own brokerage that was very unusual. I've got my core, we've got a really small brokerage in our area with Quality Real Estate, good presence here. However, I've got agents in my own office asking me, what am I doing? Why am I spending all this money? What am I doing? Where am I getting all these leads? ‘Cause they knew that I was not a listing agent primarily. 

The other thing is my broker was getting very upset and that was the greatest compliment I could ever have was when, as soon as your broker gets upset with you and saying, “What are you doing? Okay. I'm not busy at all and you've got 11, 12 listing appointments?” And all of a sudden we added a tracking board in our office, which I don't need a visual board to know where my success is. I look in the mirror every day and I know exactly what I'm doing. I don't need that. I just need transactions. I don't need the public accolades or the presence in my office. Well, I'm starting to put words on that board now and it's changed. It's really changed. Everything that I have seen in the past, completely opposite of what I’ve done. And so that part is a big change and getting questions.

And then I also, I had gotten two text messages after I ran the Valentine's ad with the flowers and people noticed, and I got a lot of comments on it, which was great. But I got compliments from two of the top producers in the area, “Excellent job on your marketing. I'm jealous.” And it was basically that same message that, “Hey Jae, what are you doing?” and “I wish I had that.” And so that I knew right away. So when Emily and I sat down after I think it was our third or fourth coaching call, I immediately said, “This is working, increase our budget. We've got to get going.” And I'm seeing the results and I know it's there. I had to heavily leverage because we had a very, I had a very small amount of business in the winter.

Tim Chermak: As most people do in Minnesota in the winter when it's 30 degrees below zero or whatever, you're not necessarily selling a bunch of houses in December and January.

Jae VonBank: Yeah. Well, actually, historically I've done very well in January, February and March of previous years, but this year I did not and I've been sitting idle. I've only had three or four transactions, which is not enough to sustain everything. But when I sat down with Diana and I sat down with Emily and I actually interviewed other agents that were part of the Platform program, and I really…  like I said, I'm very analytical and I want to make sure it's a fit for my business model and my strategic plan. 

And what I realized was, like I said before, the ads don't feel like ads. It feels very organic. And the turnaround in your business could change, and I saw that. And that's when I said, “Emily, we got to double down. We got to go down. We got to double my ad budget.” And I think I surprised her a little bit with that but I knew that the ROI was going to be there. And by doubling down, yeah, but now it comes back to me to make sure I'm having enough content besides just spending money and having relevant content.

So it's nice to have a platform, a website or a Facebook group to bounce off ideas, network with other individuals in the group. I'm a member of another group. We talked about my Google online presence, I have another group. What I found out is in talking both sides of that, we have 60 members that cross over in the same membership of the couple hundred agents you have on Platform, we have the same thing on that on my Google business. That coaching program is well versed on both sides, which is great.

Tim Chermak: What was the name of the Google marketing program you're with?

Jae VonBank: Oh, it's Bulletproof Real Estate Agent.

Tim Chermak: Okay. 

Jae VonBank: Called Bulletproof. 

Tim Chermak: Yep. Okay. Yep. 

Jae VonBank: Yeah, it's a fantastic program. It really helps you.

Tim Chermak: Really what Jae is getting at here is that. It's not enough to have something like Platform Marketing, which really makes you a celebrity, makes you famous on social media in your area. Because if someone's not necessarily searching social media, but let's say they're on Google, you need to have a strong presence there as well and have lots of reviews and have a strong Google presence. Where the magic happens is when you have both. Because if someone first finds you on Google and then they go see you on social media and they realize, “Oh, wow, this guy's very active on social media. He seems like a legit agent”, right? 

Or the opposite could happen. Someone finds you first on Facebook through one of your Platform Facebook ads, but then they Google you and they don't really find anything at all. They're kind of like, “Okay, is this guy just really good at Facebook? He's not actually a successful realtor?” So it's having both of those things strong that kind of creates a 1 plus 1 equals 3 effect. And that's where you're getting a lot of your business from.

Jae VonBank: Absolutely. And I don't think I would be where I'm at right now. But with the whole NAR settlement that really flipped our brokerage and a lot of our discussions that we've had at our weekly meetings and stuff. The last three weeks we've been talking about this. What are we gonna do? What message are we gonna be able to go forward with? And I'm excited because I have avenues of providing that, of understanding. 

When people search you and you do not have an online presence and all they see, like you said, it's “I only see you on Facebook” or they don't even have it. The interesting thing is a year ago, I didn't even have a Google business profile. So I went almost two years in my business without any of this stuff. And you know what? I was obscure. The only business I was getting was some referral business and then Zillow and Realtor.com and I would be sitting by my phone waiting for it to ring, or Opcity, constantly waiting and you're chasing around buyers day in, day out. That's not the case anymore. 

What I'm seeing now is, okay, I got these listing appointments. I actually get to go out beforehand and demonstrate value and understand why I do what I do and how I can differentiate myself. The great thing now is people already see me on social media and they can see how I can get that reach. And then understanding, having the exclusivity of the area that I have. I have a pretty large radius of Alexandria around 45 miles. So I have a good reach and I have a larger population than I was expecting. And I was excited when I found out it was available because I knew what we had available was going to be great for my presence.

And I already had those kinds of platforms in Realtor and Zillow. And I pretty much essentially I've gone down to zero now. I still have a little bit and those are in strategic areas that I've had long term business in and it works out for me. But my expense on that is not what it used to be at all and I've now transitioned mine over to, like I said, Bulletproof. They also helped me out with an SEO website, that is amazing. Really when that gets going that's just going to help even more. 

The analytics on Google are constantly changing. So if you think you knew what you were doing a month ago, it's changing constantly. And of course, having you guys on Facebook and specializing in it, you're on the top of the game on any changes that we see there also and making the adjustments as needed.

Tim Chermak: Yeah, I think so much more so now than even just a couple of years ago, it's going to be incredibly important in light of the NAR lawsuits and the settlement and all that, that you need to be positioned as an expert. Because people need to really trust and know that, “Hey, I'm working with the best agent. I've done my research. I've done my due diligence and I feel that Jae is the best,” right? That's always been true a little bit, right? But it's going to be even more true now as we go into the wild wild west of negotiating more commissions and just having a more like dynamic marketplace in terms of people trying to negotiate their commissions, both on the buy side, listing side.

If you are positioned as an expert, you're in a much better position with more leverage to negotiate both with buyers, but also homeowners. If they've never heard of you but maybe someone referred them to you but they look online and they don't see anything about you, that's not really a strong negotiating position to say I'm an expert realtor even though you've never heard of me. So marketing really will affect, I think, the prices you're able to charge. 

Jae VonBank: Exactly. I think the greatest compliment I got when I had one of the listing appointments specifically - I went, I already knew I had one before I even got there, just with the verbiage that they were communicating to me. It was an expired listing, I was the last agent to show the previous year when it went canceled in November. But I gave them great feedback on the property and they ended up calling me and said, “We need you to come down and we would like you to list our home.”

Now this is in February here. And I go, I said, “How did you find me?” “Well, we found you on Google. We read all your reviews and then we started seeing you on Facebook and we started seeing what you're posting. We kind of got to know you a little bit.” Well, I got to build a relationship with the owners and I already won before I even got in the door. They said, “We are halfway through, kind of going through what we were going to do from a marketing plan point.” And they said, “You know what, Jae? We read your reviews, we see what you're doing. This is exactly what we need to get the most eyes on our property.” And it was actually kind of exciting. 

I had an open house this weekend, listing went live on Friday. Actually had five different couples show up, which I was excited for. Our little town of Starbuck is not very big, if you know where that is, to have five people show up. And the cool thing is I'm actually writing up an offer from one of the people that drop by as a buyer. And so it's going to be yeah, going to be great. And I'm looking forward to it. 

Jae VonBank: The cool thing is my first two listing videos came out and went active as of this moment, about an hour and a half ago. So that was exciting of recording those and getting through and getting of course, editing done and publishing them, and then seeing the feedback on my peers, which is very interesting. Again, it goes back to that same dynamic of understanding what the market needs. 

People are doing their research. They want to know who the best is, especially remember, this is either the biggest purchase they've ever made, or they're moving up or moving down and they're moving from a large purchase, maybe to a smaller one, or even bigger, and this is a lot of money, and they have to have that representation and understanding that value. And especially within our settlement here, it really is going to change how buyers and sellers are marketed, but also service in the industry. And I don't know, I'm not the biggest fan of dual agency because I think you have more value when you can provide services to one side of the party.

Tim Chermak: Right, right. Yeah, and that new dynamic that'll probably be introduced into the industry here, I think makes it more likely that a realtor working with Platform is going to get more listings all things being equal. So your kind of anecdotal experience in the last 90 days is really just proof of this, that the people who do the most research, I think it's pretty safe to say the people who do the most research are usually sellers. Buyers don't do as much research on the agent they're going to work with because up until this point they weren't necessarily writing a check to pay for their buyers’ agents commission.

But when you're selling a house and you're actually the one writing the big check for the commission, or at least it emotionally feels that way, right? We can debate the semantics all day long of, you paying the buyer's agent commission or who is paying, whatever but the point is, the sellers feel the emotional pain of writing the commission check, right? So they're more emotionally incentivized to do research, to actually do due diligence and spend maybe a couple hours Googling or searching on YouTube, social media, Facebook about “which realtor do we want to work with?” I think it's again, fair to say that homeowners, home buyers have always done more research when selecting their listing agent compared with selecting the buyer's agent.

Jae VonBank: Yeah. 

Tim Chermak: So that means all things being equal, if you're putting out a lot of marketing content and just like real estate content that positions you as an expert, all things being equal then, that marketing content will probably attract more listing leads than it will buyers because listing leads are the ones actually looking for that content doing research. So your experience of, “Hey wow, I hired Platform and really in the first 90 days, like the number of listing appointments I got skyrocketed.” I think that'll become the norm in the coming years because that type of marketing specifically attracts sellers more than it does buyers.

Jae VonBank: Yeah, I would agree. And again it's having that content that's valid, that's relevant, that's educating, that people can then have that pair of social relationship of “know, like and trust” you and they get to know you on a personal level. I mean, like I said before, when I go out now in the community, whether even if I'm shopping for groceries, or I'm going to the local drinking establishment, people are like, “Hey you're all over my Facebook. Why?” I'm like, “Well, you must have an interest in housing, at some point in time, you must have clicked on it.” We're not even friends on Facebook but I'm all over your feed and they can't figure out why. And that for me is a great compliment when I see that.

And I also see other people in the community when they’re like, “Hey, I'm seeing your stuff,” which is great. And I think you have to have the dynamic, I think that's where I'm working with Emily, is really being authentic. Being an analytical person, I'm not a… I mean, I'm a fun loving guy and like to have a lot of fun, but I'm also very professional in regards to how I come across so it's a combination of both. So really understanding with the ads that we're going to be putting out and the video content we're going to be putting out, it matches my personality and that's the key.

And having that coach that kind of guides you through, “Hey, I'm looking for an idea on this. You know me now, getting to know me over the last three months or two months here, on our weekly calls, you're getting to know me, you know what kind of person I am.” So then she's able to help tailor that message that's a little bit more. Other coaching programs don't have that. They might have a one month check in, “How's it going?” for 15 minutes and “Okay, keep going at it.” And it's not there. 

Jae VonBank: And I would say the biggest thing that I've had some big hurdles and Emily and I have been having to go through that. I had some major health issues that happened the last three weeks that I've had to disconnect from Platform a little bit, or my phone calls when I'm getting leads in and running ads. And as you have said it before, “Call the dang leads, call the dang leads, call them, call them! If you're not calling them, you're not going to get the business.” Well, I kind of had to take a step back and I realized that I need to get back at it. So that's my next focus is going forward now that I'm healthier.

And having gone in and out of the hospital a couple times over a couple weeks just was terrible but it kind of shut me down. But the cool thing is, my Google presence, my YouTube and my Facebook, it's running ads 24/7. Whether I'm in the hospital or not, I am getting generated leads and my face is out there and I'm getting presence, which is great. If I was not doing this, which I historically had not. I'm waiting for the phone to ring. Instead of now I'm waiting for the phone to ring and people are calling me to list. Not calling me because they're calling because they want to get a scheduled showing on realtor.com and Zillow.com

Tim Chermak: Right, I think the biggest compliment that was paid to you, is you were saying that your broker is almost getting jealous now because your broker was used to always leading the brokerage and volume of production and transactions and all that. Now Jae is actually in first place. It's like, “How did this happen? I'm not even the number one producer anymore.”

Jae VonBank: Yeah. Well, it was not only that, it was just his SEO understanding and he's paying all this money and he's like, “Man, I don't even exist. How did you get there?” I said, “I'm not telling you. I'm not giving you my secrets.” But it kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier, and you made reference to it, my strategic plan. And I really as a previous engineer, I really want to understand what is working and what is not. 

Tim Chermak: When you were an engineer, you said at 3M for over 20 years, right? 

Jae VonBank: Yeah, I was. Yup and COVID hit. 

Tim Chermak: Really, like most of your career has been spent as an engineer, you've only been a realtor the last three years. So you definitely have an analytical mindset. You're not just going out willy-nilly, spontaneously, trying stuff. Like you have a very focused analytical mindset about how you think about your budget and your marketing and everything. 

Jae VonBank: I would say to a degree, yes. But I also have that entrepreneurial mindset where I'm not afraid to take a risk. I've tried other coaching programs that I spent thousands of dollars on that didn't work, but I'm not afraid to take a risk. And I think taking quick action but taking strategic quick action is more what I would say is more my personality because I'm really understanding what is going to work for my process, and understanding that you can't dabble in every single thing. If you try, you're going to be procrastinating. You're not going to do justice to it.

But if you can be good at a certain thing and then replicate that, like being good at Google, be good at YouTube, which I'm expanding out. Now, social media with Facebook. I mean, I didn't even have a Facebook page. As an engineer, we work in a little box all the time. Back in the back room, confidential area, you might see 10 people in a day and they're only the people you work with, and so that was difficult. And so when I came out of that business, most engineers are extremely introverted and I'm not. I'm the polar opposite.

Jae VonBank: I'm extremely extroverted. We used to always say a good joke, here. “How do you know an introverted and extroverted engineer? The introverted engineer is looking at his shoes when he's talking to you. The extrovert is looking at your shoes.” Well, I'm not that. I'm looking in your face. I'm getting engaged. So even when my broker interviewed me, when we actually signed on with them, that was the same thing. He's like, “You're not a typical engineer.” I have the engineering side, which is great, but I guess going back to where making the investments and understanding what's working and what does not work is really getting back to the nuts and bolts, what works for you as an individual. 

What aligns with your personality? What's aligns with your strategies? How do you want to see success? Do you want to go into certain issues that work for your history, that you have experience in and understanding those? And I think a lot of agents that are new tend to dabble in too many things too quickly and they get frustrated because it's not working. It is a long game and that's the part that I realized that this is a long game approach and I'm starting to see the flip in my business, which is great. 

Going from a buyer's agent, I'm still servicing buyers of course, don't get me wrong. And I was able to get up, I was able to pick up a Platform buyer last Friday night. Of course, you got to be willing and able and, “Hey, Jae I want to see a house at 7 o'clock on a Friday. We're writing up a contract until 9 o'clock at night.” Well, most agents don't necessarily want to work Friday nights, but you do what you do and you work through that. And Platform has really aligned all of my avenues together and it's completed that presence that I did not have on social media.

Tim Chermak: So you said you developed a strategic business plan. Would you mind sharing more about that? Like what you mean by that?

Jae VonBank: Well, I'd say 80% of people start searching online from a buyer’s standpoint, I would say the same thing about sellers, either whether it's on social media. And I realized that the target marketing that I was looking at, whether it be on Platform, I look at the demographics of people that use Facebook. They're typically going to be above 30 and up to 75 years old. Guess who has the money? Okay? I don't advertise on TikTok because I know TikTok, you can have a broad range, but you got a lot of 18, 16, 17 year olds, they don't have any money and why are you going to waste your time on that? I also realized that my Google presence, like I said before, Bulletproof has helped me get that one going. Go ahead. What did you ask? What were you asking? 

Tim Chermak: I said, you have an awareness of even the like the demographics that you're targeting and you're not just putting money at this, or this, or this. You're really consciously thinking about, “Okay, where is my capital being allocated?” So how much money were you spending on Zillow or realtor.com before?

Jae VonBank: About $1,600 a month. 

Tim Chermak: Okay. 

Jae VonBank: About $1,600 and that was just on Zillow and Realtor. And of course I had Opcity from my brokerage and then you have all the referral rates and everything else. And I would rather take a referral than not have business so don't get me wrong. Pay out that percent it varies from 25% to 40% depending on who you're working with and what referral business you have. However, that's not a sustainable approach. And I realized part of my strategic plan to get back to that from Platform and understanding that social media presence and having consistency. 

And that's the part I love about the organic ads that feel organic, I should say, is that constant posting and constant presence, whether it's retargeting or generating a new ad. Then I moved into Google and realized I need to specialize in that. And like I said, Bulletproof has helped me out that. Now I'm expanding and getting the next strategic approach because of analytics on both Meta and Google. 

Jae VonBank: YouTube is becoming an opportunity of just having a business page there and posting content and having relevant content. So when people search you or search Realtor in Alexandria, Minnesota, where do you show up? And do you have any video content? Do you have a buyer's content? Do you have a seller's content? Hey, just a quick introductory video. And then expanding it more. 

I realized that the big switch that I've also seen is I'm now starting to see some luxury properties, which I have historically never have seen. My average listing price has gone up from, listing or sell price of 175 to 3, $230,000. My previous, well I've got a $600,000 listing. I've got a potential for a $1.6 million listing, a $900,000 listing, another $600,000 listing. I've got one going active today for another $500,000. So I mean, it's not like I'm getting small properties and they vary whether it's land, farmland or lakefront properties, but people are seeing it.

Jae VonBank: And I think the biggest thing also is you have to look professional. So that was the big gap. I also saw from an SEO standpoint was if you're going to be a luxury agent or want to work in that luxury market, you better look professional. Don't have your broker website because you're driving all the business to them as a relay. That's what I did for years, that's all I've had. I wasn't willing to pay that, and I have that now. And so I'm driving SEO to that and it looks like a professional website. It's well done. It's well maintained. It's got the all SEO content. So the multifacet of everything I've got going into it. 

Now, doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing Realtor and Zillow, like I said, turn those way down. But I also, it was very strategic and analytical on I know what works and what doesn't. Because Zillow changes our terms where you have to do X amount of dollars per zip code. Well, they will grandfather you in if you had a long time ago before they made that change. I still keep a couple of zip codes cause I'm only paying a dollar a month. So I'm paying $32 a month for Zillow. And I've got like eight or nine zip codes because I'm the only one that ever bought it back in the day. Now somebody can go buy it today. I could care less. I'll turn it off. It doesn't matter. Or they don't answer their phone it might come to me because they only have one or two of us in there.

Jae VonBank: So there are smaller markets, but again, you have to be strategic and you can't just blanket it. But I really want to look at what's working for my money and that's where I've gotten to. Now that I have those processes in place, now it's going to a systematic approach. How do I get better at conversions? How do I get better utilizing my CRM to be able to whether it's cold content, whether it's via mail drip or keeping relevant to that audience that I've created and now nurturing over time? 

Because you can send out postcards, you can send out a letter, you can send out a one time listing. You can be at a home show. We have that coming up here in Alexandria here in a couple of weeks. You can be there, but if they're not ready and willing to buy that day, specific day, they're going to stand over the garbage can with a postcard and throw it in the garbage. Now “oh, postcards don't work.” They actually do. Postcards work if you're on a consistent basis. 

It's the same exact thing on social media that Platform is providing. You're going to be a top of mind when they start looking, they start searching. “Oh, I remember that Jae guy. Hey, I remember. I see him all the time. He's constantly showing content that is relevant, that's educational and making the effort for the buyers and sellers.” And again, I've had people recognize me and say, “Hey Jae, I forgot you're an agent.” You know why they forgot me? ‘Cause I was obscure and didn't have a presence and I didn't have a system. I do now.

Tim Chermak: Yeah, it really is crazy how many agents may have been realtors for five years or 10 years, whatever, and they'll still regularly have their friends and family tell them, “Oh, I forgot you were an agent.” It's like, how can you be in the business that long and people forget. It means you're not marketing enough, right? If the people who already know you, they're in your sphere of influence, if they sometimes forget that you're a real estate agent, you are not marketing enough. 

Jae VonBank: Yeah, I think the biggest thing that you bring up a very valid point. I think a lot of new agents that sign on, I was a new agent myself. I learned from, I heard this from a previous coach and it was a dynamic of what he said. He says, “A real estate agent, a licensed real estate agent unlocks doors and shows houses. Really what you are is you are a marketing specialist that has a real estate license to help get the most eyes on your properties. And if you're not marketing, you've got to become a marketing expert.” I knew I wasn't. And I dabbled in it, I do my few posts on Facebook or I do whatever. And I'm like, why am I not seeing… no one’s seeing my stuff? Again, it goes back to the analytics. I had no money behind it. I didn't understand how to advertise, didn’t know what I was doing.

And you can either figure it out, which being an engineer, I could probably figure it out. But again, it's not the most useful presence of my time, where the time is really making money with the clients. Whether I'm at a listing appointment or doing the social media content or getting in the community so people can recognize you along with making that connection from social media to being in person. Be present, go to social events, go up to your chamber of commerce, find out what their weekly schedule is and just show up and be there. And I think a lot of agents don't do that. And that's something that now that I have a presence, I'm doing more of it and I'm getting more and more recognized.

Tim Chermak: Yeah. We've always said that the most successful Platform realtors, their social media presence, the amount of retargeting ads they do and how their social media ads are portraying them as being champions of the community and they're active in the community, the most successful Platform agents it appears that way via their retargeting ads because it's actually true in real life, right? They are, let's say attending chambers of commerce events. They are active in their communities or their kids’ schools or their churches or other other community events.

So the social media ads with Platform aren't creating a false perception. It is the reality that they're active in their community. And then we're using Facebook ads and retargeting ads, et cetera, to reach more people but it is based on a true story, right? We're not creating a perception where you're all involved in the community when in reality you're not, right? So if you do both of those, that's where the real stuff happens.

Jae VonBank: Yes, I would agree. And if you're not doing it, I don't think you're doing justice. But again, if you're not doing it, you're obscure. If you're not present, if you have no online presence, you're obscure. And yeah, anybody can get… what does it take? 80 hours, 90 hours to get a license and they'll give it to you and you take a couple of tests and they tell you how many square feet are an acre and da da da da da. Okay, great. They don't tell you how to digital market. They don't tell you how to run a budget. They don't tell you how to be an entrepreneur, how to run your own business as an individual contractor. They don't tell you that. 

It's kind of like we don't teach a school for an hour in high school. We don't teach them how to do their taxes, how to change a tire, how to change our oil in their car, those types of things. Life skills. And in a business standpoint without that, I've struggled. I'm not going to deny it. I have struggled at times where I'm like, okay, this isn't working. What do I do? And I was fortunate. 

I was on a forum group on Facebook that I found a person that referenced Platform. And I knew immediately within two days that I had to make the call because my Facebook feed profile was filled up with nothing but Platform retargeting ads, which was great. I loved it because it showed me what could happen and it didn't feel fake and I guess that's the thing. And in talking to other agents around my area that have different markets and just consulting with them. What did you do? Were you a part time agent? Okay. I was part time agent before. Or I only did 10, 12 transactions a year, and my GCI was X, 30, 40, $50,000 and I want to get to a hundred or I want to get to 300. Well, you got to be able to bridge that gap. And in consulting with those and doing the research I did to that kind of vet Platform, it really allowed me that opportunity to “Yeah, I’m going to…” 

Jae VonBank: I mean when I was on with Diana she's like, “So what do you think?” I'm like, “Where do I sign up?” ‘Cause I know exactly… I knew that I had answered all the questions that I needed to get answered and we had a follow up and I signed up. It did not change my mind because I knew being an analytical person that this was going to work for me, but I had to take the risk for one, whether it be financial and time-oriented, to take that risk to step forward. What I knew was a gap in my game. And if I didn't have that in my strategic plan, I was not going to be able to move to be a top producer in my area and that's my ultimate goal. 

And I, to be honest, I knew my strat plan. You have to really understand your big why. You know what? I don't want to struggle with money. I've gone through those ups and downs. And of course we all struggle as commissioned agents that we live commission to commission at times. Or you have a process in place that's going to provide that consistency kind of the same way Facebook works. Consistent content will give you consistent commission. You don't have it, you gotta get to it. But you gotta be able to take that risk. And I wasn't initially and I've heavily leveraged everything I have right now, and it's like “Okay, we got to get some closings. We got to get going.” But again, Platform has allowed that opportunity with the mirror image of what I have on Google and Youtube.

Tim Chermak: How much are you spending on ads every month right now, Jae? What is your actual Facebook ads budget? 

Jae VonBank: Up to $1,200 and we can increase it more. I just ran those, I just got those two new listing videos so they'll be upping it out. I started at $800, the minimum and I knew right away, I'm like get it going, bring it up, let's get some content. And so of course that means I have to create content

Tim Chermak: Yup, yup.

Jae VonBank: And having the content that, whether it be a still image or video or whatever. I'm not a big fan of recording myself on video and you have to just get over that. I know I got a big nose, I'm bald, I'm old, I'm fat, and I'm short, whatever you are. You don't look any different when you're in person, so get over yourself. And I had to.

And so when I did my listing videos, I don't know. First one we did, I had never done it before. I bet I had 30 minutes of outtakes that were so funny because I'm fumbling words, I'm laughing, I'm giggling, and my videographer guy is doing it. He's laughing and giggling and then we're pausing, stopping, stopping, and stopping, and re-recording. And then all of a sudden somebody comes by and they’ll honk a horn. You think you got it all perfect. You got it right. You did the perfect shoot, and then somebody honks a horn. It's like, “Oh!” 

Jae VonBank: So you gotta get out of  your own way and if you're not willing to, maybe Platform is not the right thing for you. But you know what? You look how you look, and if you're not willing to do it… And sometimes you may look silly. You might feel yourself being stupid, but like I said, the listing videos went live today, both of my clients were ecstatic. They said, “Great job. Love how it worked out.” It feels good.

It doesn't say, “Hey. Hi, this is Jae VonBank for Quality Real Estate. Let's go take a tour of 123 Main Street,” and it goes through. Now, I know I didn't do the best job on my first two but I figured, you know what? Done is still better than perfection ‘cause if I do perfection, I'm going to procrastinate and I'm always going to be behind the ball.

Just get it done. It might not be perfect but sometimes the outtakes and you're fumbling and that type of… It's not professional. I'm not asking for a $700 editing company to make a commercial on a market update. Just giving them organic system to people that gives relevant content ‘cause they're going to like and trust you a whole lot more than a professional ad with all the graphics behind and da-da-da.

I mean, it's simple. And I think that's the biggest thing that even my clientele and my peers are recognizing. It looks so organic comparative to some of the other stuff that I've tried dabbling that just didn't feel right.

Tim Chermak: The Platform Marketing ads that we run, the whole reason it’s genius is the ads don't look like ads. They look authentic and organic. So when your posts are popping up in someone's Facebook newsfeed, they don't even realize at an emotional level, they don't even realize they're being advertised to because the ads don't look or feel like ads.

Jae VonBank: Well, that's a hundred percent. Like the Valentine ad was great. You know, holding the flowers and I'm grimacing and people are like, “Oh my gosh, that was so funny.” And the cool thing is then you get people to interact more and more and more. And of course, that drives your analytics up and then you can actually reply to it that drives even more. So the retargeting works and that type of stuff and having content that's valid. But again, it doesn't feel…

I mean, you know it's a sponsored ad but even family and friends that are in my SEO or that are friends of mine that see it, they don't realize it is a sponsored ad. They're laughing at it or commenting on it. They're liking it, which is great. And it's just a different approach. And yes, you can run a list of homes. You can run a list of buyers you're searching for, but unless you know how to do the analytics, and I didn't. I wasn't willing to have that, whether it's a VA or whatever doing those things, you guys have the system for it.

Plus you're also providing weekly accountability and the content that says “this works.” We've either split tested it or nope, we want this because it actually works better than this. And I think that's the key and having that coach. I'm really enjoying working with your sister Emily, as far as, getting to know her, but she's getting to know me and having that personal accountability. “Jae, you need to kick butt now. You got to get back in gear. You're back. You're healthy again, get back at it. You've lost three weeks. It's time to kick your butt.” And I'm glad I have that. 

Tim Chermak: Yeah. You know, we usually try to match up your Platform account manager based off of like where you live and if they understand your market area and like your personality, and all that. And so it just works out that Emily actually lives in Kandiyohi County, which is only about an hour away from Alexandria. So just culturally, she understands that area of central Minnesota, rural Minnesota, where she understands your market. So that she understands what type of ad will work.

Jae VonBank: Hundred percent, and she also knows agents that are in very… Yeah, she does and I have peers in very similar communities, whether it's working with another agent up in Brainerd or Ottertail County or Fargo, just depends on that. We're very similar and so what's working in one can be replicated in another, which is great. 

Tim Chermak: Right, right. So what exactly would you say Jae, in your first 90 days of Platform…  What has been the ROI? Like how many actual listings have you gotten or buyer lead? What would you say is the ROI in terms of the amount of money you've invested versus what's coming in?

Jae VonBank: Okay, so let me think here. My ROI right now on Platform, I'm gonna have to combine Platform and Google together because they so overlap. I mean, I know that's sometimes hard for me to distinguish. Where did you find me? Did you hear me on Platform or did you get me on Google? And that interrelationship that's so tight. Let's see here. I got 1, 2… I got 3 closed contracts already that already exceeded my initial investment. So with what I've got coming up and what I have listed, my ROI if I could sell those properties, if it's just a single side will be probably 15x in the first 90 days. 

Tim Chermak: Wow, that's crazy. 

Jae VonBank: Yeah. I mean, I had one listing that turned into a double sided. It was a small– we were going to do a video tour. Emily and I talked about it, it was just a land lot. It's $50, 000 but I did some quick marketing and they saw me, they knew me on Facebook. They immediately called me and go, “We want to buy that.” And I'm like, “Oh, I just was going to do a video on it.” And I can't ‘cause I sold it in one day, was not expecting that. I sold a similar lot next door to it and it took six months to sell last year. And so having that dynamic of who to target to and understanding that and how it's working and yeah.

And then I had one of my son's baseball buddies call me up. He goes, “I forgot you're an agent, I saw you on my Facebook feed. Can you help me go see a home?” That was that Friday night one that we had last week. And so yeah, I mean it's a matter of those. Now the listings, those are coming on board, some are delayed because we want to get the docs out. So I have you know, I have a $600,000 one. I have a $900,000 one, another $600,000 one, a 321 and then a $250,000 one, all coming up within the next in between now and end of April.

So it's going to get busy, which is great for me. In fact, having primarily been a buyer's agent, I didn't have enough signs. I realized, I'm like, okay, I've got 12 opportunities, I got five signs. I gotta make more investments. So I'm like crud, I gotta spend more money again. I had to go get some signs.

Tim Chermak: So after joining the Platform Marketing program, one expense you didn't anticipate was you had to order more listing signs. 

Jae VonBank: Yeah, that was a little bit of a shock. I was like, oh no. But I had to laugh so I go down to the local company that does those and the owner knows me and she goes, “I see you”. And I'm like, “Good!” She goes, “You're getting busy.” I'm like, “Yes, I am and that's great.”

Tim Chermak:  Jae, what would you say is… If you could almost narrow it down to one thing, and again, I know you're only 90 days in, but what would you say is the biggest, like most specific benefit of the Platform Marketing program for you? If you could just pick one thing, what do you think is most important about Platform Marketing in terms of your success?

Jae VonBank: The consistency and bridging that gap of my one gap I had in my portfolio or my strat plan of an online presence. The consistency of being in front of people by far, whatever content it is, but having that consistency, retargeting is the number one I'm seeing on Platform by far.

Tim Chermak: What specific ads have you done that have actually worked the best? You mentioned the Valentine's day ad. Have there been any other ones that hey, this particular ad seem to get a lot of engagement?

Jae VonBank: There was one on regards to the national or the Fed rates. It was just a quick, organic or not organic, but just a quick post “Remember these Dates.” That one I've gotten a lot of traction on from people because interest rates are kind of a top of mind and they know the dates. And I had to remind myself what those dates were because I know it was posted and I didn't memorize it so it was kind of like, I got to look my ad up to figure out.

“Window of Opportunity” was a good one. Now from a lead standpoint, I did “Acreage around the Area” because we do have a lot of interest in acreage between 2 and 15 acres within a 25 mile radius of Alexandria. And the “List of Homes” by far has been generating the buyer leads. And then I just ran a couple new ones that are coming out. I've got a “Ducks in a Row” video coming out, which was filmed, and I don't know how many times I giggled on that one just to get it through editing. We had people coming by, walking by right behind me on the beach and I'm like, “Okay, we got to stop. Retake that,” and we were just trying to figure out what would work.

And of course, Alexandria is a lakes area community so I wanted to do it down by the beach, but then the first beach we went to is all still at ice on it last week. Well, now the ice is out and so we had to find a beach that didn't have ice so it looked like somewhat of a, “Hey, the spring market's coming on. Are you ready to get your ducks in a row?” type situation. So that was coming up. The listing videos I'm excited for. I've already seen some analytics on that which is great. So I know people are seeing it and watching it.

Tim Chermak: Jae, is there any last advice you would want to share with agents listening to this podcast episode about what they can do to be successful here in 2024 and beyond?

Jae VonBank: I would say the number one thing is understanding that the greatest chance of wealth is taking advertising dollars and turning it into profit and take the risk. And I'm leveraged, I know that. I got, whether it's credit cards or borrowing money from my savings and that type of stuff to get through until these closings happen. It's a big risk, it's scary. However, a lot of agents right now with the NAR lawsuit coming up and the fact that we had a major change in our market to shift with interest rates and low inventory, really understanding that, you have to almost double down. 

A lot of agents will pull back and I'm already seeing it, even in my own office where agents are pulling back. Like “I can't spend right now. I don't have anything coming in.” Figure it out. That would be the greatest advice I would give anybody is take that risk and go for it. And you gotta be willing to spend because you're not going to get any profit unless you're willing to advertise and otherwise you become scared and people don't recognize that you're actually an agent. 

And go for it. That would be my biggest advice for that and understanding really your investments, what investments are going to give you the biggest bang for your buck However, you need to be a little bit diverse, you cannot be on just one thing. And I think I've told you that early on and demonstrated it. It wasn't just one thing in my strategic plan, it's multifaceted. And I'm glad I was able to share that for anybody that's listening to this podcast because it is it's not a single line approach. 

Jae VonBank: Yes, you can do those, but then you're putting all your eggs in one basket. Now will every single piece of my strat plan give me 5x, 10x, 20x? No. I know some are only going to give me a 3x. But it gets me into a different area that I may not have. And I know that ROI may not be great on that, but you have relatively understanding you're spending for that ROI. And if you don't understand that, then you're just throwing money. 

And I see a lot of agents just throw money on Zillow and Realtor.com and other lead agencies that just don't bring in the ROI because 1.) they don't know how to measure it and number 2.) is they just don't understand the strategic level behind what the analytics that those companies are doing. And I think that's where I differentiate a lot is I'm able to re-engineer what's going on. And yeah, I'm an engineer so it's just going to be who I am and I'm going to analyze, it's just who I am. But ultimately it's about taking risk, educated and strategic. But if you're not willing to take risk, then you're probably not an entrepreneur at heart.

Tim Chermak: Well, If you are measuring it out to be a 15 to 1 ROI, every dollar you're spending on marketing, you're getting 15 back, that's a pretty good investment, that's shocking. I would say to you, I'll just add this disclaimer, right? That's not normal, right? Most people who sign up for the Platform are absolutely not going to get a 15 to 1 ROI in their first 90 days. But when something like that happens, we want to celebrate that and promote that because we want to remind everyone what's possible when you trust the system and when you film the videos and create the content, when you follow up with leads, you know? It is possible to get results like that even if those results aren't typical in the first 90 days. 

And I love what you said Jae, as we wrap up this episode. I love what you said about, if business slows down, it's a mistake to slow down your expenses and cut advertising and marketing, because that's where your future business comes from. It's like going to a fireplace and saying, “Hey, if you give me heat first, then I'll put some firewood in.” No, that's not how it works. You have to put the firewood in if you want to get the heat. So if business has slowed down, now's not the time to cut marketing, now is the time to accelerate your marketing.

Tim Chermak: And we put our money where our mouth is, right? Even at Platform, business was really tough over the last year because obviously it was a tough year for realtors. But we actually increased our marketing substantially over the last year for that exact reason and now it's paying off. We're getting a great return because we planted so many seeds with agents who saw our marketing in the years ‘22 and 2023 that now we're growing a lot as a company in 2024. 

You mentioned you clicked on an ad and you just started seeing a lot of Platform Marketing retargeting ads. Obviously, what that means for you as a realtor is you're like, “Oh wow. So if I hire this company, they can create that same phenomenon for me where when people click on my stuff, they'll start seeing a bunch of my retargeting ads.” And you start imagining, “Well, if the marketing they're going to do for me is anything like the marketing they're doing for themselves, I'll be in a pretty good position.” That's what we're that's what we're trying to accomplish, and it's working. There is cause and effect with money you spend on marketing and the results that you get.

Jae VonBank: Oh, I would agree with you a hundred percent and I went into this situation thinking that I would not see– I knew it was a long game. The pricing structure that Platform allows those first six months is fantastic and I appreciate that because it allows you to demonstrate and see. I did not expect, I didn't. So when I signed up, you know, I started in December of kind of looking at this and I made a decision then after a couple calls with Diana in January and then signing up. I knew I had a huge risk. 

I was not expecting results until easily into the spring market, if even June/July that I would see it. And I knew I didn't have a lot of listing videos so I was trying to figure out what am I going to do. And then all of a sudden, you manifested a little bit. And I wouldn’t even call it manifesting. I would just say, you're looking at it and the business is coming to me. And I did not expect the opportunity that actually came forward. I had lowered my expectations to a lower level hoping that I would, but I didn't. I didn't get it, didn’t receive it and I know I'm unusual on that regard. 

And it kind of comes across if you look at my comments earlier or hear the comments earlier about my coworkers or peers in my office and then my broker getting like, “What are you doing? Why are you doing this?” And then, having peers in the community, other agents and other top producers commenting on a text message, not realizing out of the blue, “you're doing great.” That for me, just reassured that, yeah, this is an important part of my overall success as I'm going to see going forward.

Tim Chermak: Yeah. If people are telling you in real life that they love seeing your ads and that they've been seeing you, whether it's on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, people are telling you in real life, “Hey, I love seeing you on social media” then you know that your marketing is working.

Jae VonBank: And again, I think it goes back to I'm fortunate that no one else in my market does what we do and having the exclusivity of this market myself and my peers not able to penetrate. Or they can try and replicate it, but they don't have access to it, that's the greatest part about it. That is the number one thing that got me when I came onto Platform was, “Okay, I don't want to be sharing this market with 15 other agents lke we do on other programs. I need a system that's going to work for me and work for me and with me as a partnership.” And that's where I would say the big gap that a lot of other coaching programs or programs from a marketing standpoint don't do. They're there to make the mighty dollar and continue making as many people as they could possibly do and you can't distinguish it from anything else. And that's another key point that I would say about Platform that I did not expect as a high return right away.

Tim Chermak: Jae, again, I want to thank you for your time and I want to give you a congratulations on the incredible success you've had in your first 90 days with the Platform strategy. Hopefully I'll get to hang out sometime with you next time I'm up in Minnesota, see you at the next Platform Mastermind. But Jae, thanks again and guys, we'll see you on the next episode of the Platform Marketing Show.