How To "Retire" (And Still Make $275,000 In GCI)

Karen Bataille:
The phone's not going to ring. And I think it's critically important to stay with the leads that you get and at least try to touch them at some point in time, whether it's through phone calls or emails, because they will convert folks. If they realize suddenly you're not a bot responding, that's what worked for me, I stuck with it. And I've been successful with it. I can do a much better job with my ads and my videos than I do, to be perfectly honest. So if you're doing what your ad manager is telling you, then just work it. Treat it a business. Get up, I do it early in the morning, get it done, move on, do what else I need to do for the day. But follow up with these folks, it will work. Whenever I get a call from somebody who's thinking about Platform, I'm happy to talk to folks because it honestly does work. And I've been down the road with others, Zillow and Commissions Inc and others, nothing works like this in my mind.

Tim Chermak:
This is the Platform marketing show, where we interview the most creative and ambitious real estate agents in the country, dissect their local marketing strategy and get the behind the scenes scoop on how they're generating listing leads and warm referrals. We'll dive into the specifics of what marketing campaigns are working for them, how much they're spending on those campaigns and figure out how they have perfected what we call the Platform marketing strategy. This is your host, Tim Chermak. I'm the founder and CEO Platform. I love marketing and I talk too much. So let's dive in.

Tim Chermak:
Hey guys. And welcome back to another episode of the Platform Marketing Show. My name is Tim Chermak. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Platform Marketing. And I'm here this morning with Karen Bataille, who was courteous enough to wake up early. We're actually recording this at 7:30 AM her time this morning, because that's when she could fit us into her schedule because now, four and a half years later, Karen's business has about quadruple, I think it's actually more than quadrupled since she started Platform. So we had to find this early morning spot when she could make time to do this episode. So Karen, welcome to the show.

Karen Bataille:
Thanks Tim. Happy to be here.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So Karen, you joined Platform in May of 2017, which-

Karen Bataille:
Yes.

Tim Chermak:
... sounds so long ago, right?

Karen Bataille:
I know.

Tim Chermak:
Doesn't 2017 just feel like an eternity ago.

Karen Bataille:
Yes it does.

Tim Chermak:
Ever since COVID and the lockdowns and all that stuff, even just thinking back to mid 2019 or something feels like that was five years ago. And then you think of 2017 and it's like, wow. So you've been in the Platform, really four and a half years now-

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
... basically. That's incredible. So you have a really cool story. Let's just get right down to the numbers here. Karen's GCI before implementing this Platform strategy was in the 60 to $70,000 a year range. Is that right?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. That's about right.

Tim Chermak:
You had been an agent for about five years, but for the first several years you were more part-time and then you had gone full-time as an agent for a year or two before Platform. And at that point you had built things up to being around 60, $70,000 a year. But you haven't been a real estate agent your entire life, so what were you doing before real estate, Karen?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah, so I worked at the conservation department here in Missouri, so I was in fisheries and wildlife and we were doing research, basically on waterfowl. And then I moved over into fisheries and we worked on fish kills and contaminants, and I had all kinds of things going on. I was a supervisor at that point in time. So I spent 23 years there and retired in 2016. But leading up to that point, I tried to get a promotion a time or two and it failed. And I guess that was a blessing because I decided I would go ahead and get ready to retire. So five years out from retirement, I went ahead and got my real estate license.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, because this is easy. This is a super flexible job that'll always leave me-

Karen Bataille:
And that was pretty true.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. This is a perfect retirement job.

Karen Bataille:
Plus I had a built in lead source. All the people I worked with at conservation.

Tim Chermak:
Sure.

Karen Bataille:
So for five years I basically learned how to do the business. Had a great coach in my broker and learned how to do the business and retired in 2016, and started going full time at that point. Because I'm not really ready to quit working, you know what I'm saying? I'm ready to slow down, but it turned out to be a great decision on my point. I'm way further ahead than I would've been if I stayed on board. I love my work, I got to do really wonderful things and travel to the Arctic and work on birds up there and do really cool stuff. But in fact, I worked in your hometown there.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, I know. Isn't that crazy. I remember you-

Karen Bataille:
In Minnesota.

Tim Chermak:
... you told us, "Wait, Wilmer, that's familiar. I used to work in Wilmer." I was like, "No way."

Karen Bataille:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Because I'm from this tiny town in central Minnesota, that's nowhere near Minneapolis or the twin cities. It's in the middle of Minnesota, small farm town. And Karen's like, "Oh, I used to work there back when I was with fish and wildlife housing."

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. There's a lot of waterfall breeding in that part of the world.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, absolutely.

Karen Bataille:
So I spent a couple of long summers up there working. But anyhow, so it was a wonderful career. Very rewarding, great opportunities to do really cool things, but it was time for me to move over. So I think I really made a great choice going into real estate to be honest. And I've been doing it for 11 years.

Tim Chermak:
And when most people think of their retirement job, they're thinking of something that's going to be easier and they probably accept that it might pay a little bit less, but they're just looking for something to bring in a little bit of money, more or less to give them something to do. Because I think a lot of people when they look at retirement now, and maybe it's a generational change, but I feel like, even the concept these days of retirement just feels a little bit outdated because most people don't want to work their entire life in some engaging job. And then at age 60 or 65 or whatever, just quit and then be like, "Oh, I'm going to play golf every day and watch Netflix. And this is what I'll do the last 30 years of my life."

Tim Chermak:
I think most people want more than that when they're at retiring. So it is just interesting because I've seen that for more and more people, my parents included. I don't think a lot of people want to just do nothing when they stop what their normal job was. But for you, this took an interesting turn because it sounds like, when you became a real estate agent, and you started dabbling doing it part-time, it sounds you were thinking, "Oh cool. This is more of a flexible job, it's not necessarily nine to five." And of course real estate agents, I'm saying that tongue in cheek, because I know that often you work a hell of a lot longer than nine to five and on weekends you don't get holidays and all that.

Tim Chermak:
But the point is, it's a little more flexible. You don't have a boss telling you have to come into the office during certain hours. And so you're thinking that, "Hey, this is an ideal job for retirement. I can kick back, relax, still make maybe a little bit of money just to pay the bills." And then your career just evolved into something far greater than that where when you got started, pre-Platform, like I said, you were doing about 60 to $70,000 in GCI. Which is a pretty solid income because you're in Columbia, Missouri, CoMo as you call it. And so it's not a big, super expensive city to live in. that's where Mizzou is, right? The university of Missouri?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. That's where the home campus is in Columbia.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So it's a college town, amazing place to live, great quality of life, but it's not super duper expensive. So even making, 60, $70,000 a year, you can have a very nice life in Columbia, Missouri making $70,000 a year. But now you're at the point where your business has scaled to where you're going to finish this year, you mentioned with, pretty dang close to $300,000 in GCI. I think you said last year you were at 275-

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
... in GCI.

Karen Bataille:
Last year, 275. I'm going to be pretty about that this year. And I have 1.5 million in the pipeline for 2022 already. That'll be closing the first quarter.

Tim Chermak:
Wow. That's incredible. So basically your business has quadrupled since you started this Platform strategy, which I suppose spoiled your retirement, because now you don't have all that free time. Maybe you thought you would have to ride your bike around the country. But when we were talking before we started recording, one thing you said to me totally shocked me is that, you're like, "Hey, I was in a full-time career before this with fish and wildlife. Eventually got into real estate and did that for a couple years and then eventually discovered Platform." And I think you just saw one of our Facebook ads, right? It wasn't a referral or anything, you just clicked on one of our ads.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. It wasn't even that Tim, you made a comment on a lab coat agent page, believe it or not.

Tim Chermak:
Oh, okay.

Karen Bataille:
You made a comment on there and intrigued me and I don't remember if you had a link on there or what? And so I just followed it and then watched the documentary and reached out. And then Tim Chermak, the owner of the company calls me up about his book. So you used on me what we are supposed to use our books for.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah.

Karen Bataille:
And man, I was just so impressed the owner called me, but it just made a lot of sense. The whole high hanging fruit strategy made a lot of sense to me, to cultivate folks and just keep in touch and cultivate that market. And so I wasn't a hard sell, I was willing to jump on. And I guess really the cherry on the sundae was the one realtor per market concept, was very intriguing. And that was what really made me pull a trigger because I've done other things. I've spent a lot of money over the years on other approaches.

Tim Chermak:
Sure.

Karen Bataille:
But nobody ever offered exclusivity to my market. And that was huge for me.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. It's still so shocking to me that that's the norm in the real estate industry, because obviously most people probably listening to this know that, as part of the Platform Marketing Program, we only work with one realtor per market area. And we would define a market area pretty generously. So Karen's in Columbia, Missouri. She doesn't just get one zip code there or one neighborhood or one area of Columbia, you get all of Columbia. I'm not sure what your market specifically looks but it's Columbia plus a 10 mile radius around it or 15 miles or whatever it is. I don't know.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. Because our towns are separated, one doesn't run into the other. And so I'm out about probably 15 miles or so from Columbia.

Tim Chermak:
Part of the magical Platform is that exclusivity, and that we will only ever work with you. But it's just shocking to me that, that makes us unique. Because you would think other marketing companies would realize, "Hey, you can get your clients a lot better results if you only work with them." Because you and I both know your ads would not work nearly as well if there were five other agents in Columbia running identical ads. That's part of what makes our strategy work so well at Platform, is that you are the only agent there, making the videos and using the scripts we share with you and running these ads on Instagram, Facebook, you have videos on YouTube, et cetera. It's exclusive. So we hear that often and it still just surprises me every time. I can't believe that that's still unique. You would think everyone would be doing that, but apparently not.

Karen Bataille:
Nobody does really. There's agents in this town that approach my lender partner.

Tim Chermak:
Oh sure.

Karen Bataille:
And ask him, "How can we get into Platform?" He chuckles and says, "You can't and Karen's not giving it up anytime soon. So I like that.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And we've heard that from lots of people. Well, cool. Karen, your business is obviously grown, it's quadrupled. And I think you're one of those stories where a lot of people, even in the Plat-fam probably don't realize how successful you are because you don't outwardly brag about anything, you're not super flashy or whatever. But you're one of those agents where quietly over the years, your business has quadrupled, your GCI has quadrupled. And one thing you said before we started recording this morning, it was like, "Yeah, I'm doing 275 probably in GCI this year. And I was able to hit that last year." So you know that that's sustainable, it's not just a, "Hey, I did this once and it's pure luck and I'm going to regress to the mean or something." You now are maintaining that, which is incredible for someone in retirement to increase their income that much. Because I'm guessing fish and wildlife wasn't paying you 275. Maybe I'm wrong.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I basically quadrupled my income after I retired.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So that's fantastic that you retire and then your income quadruples. That's amazing.

Karen Bataille:
And I have a pension check.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So it's icing on the cake. But you had said that in doing all this, it's not like you're hustling 80, 90 hours a week to build this business. You still are honoring the idea of retirement and work-life balance. And that often you're only working four days a week or five days a week, you're not slaving away seven days a week with no weekends or anything. You still have a life and yet your business is quadrupled. And that's something we very often hear from Platform realtors, is like, "Hey, the money helps and Platform helped grow my business, but what's really cool is that, the way that it did that allowed me to still have a life." So what does that look for you? If you're often only working four or five days a week, what does a typical week look like for Karen Bataille?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah, it's funny because what led me into all that was I was burned in the candle at both ends. I let too many people in at odd hours, answering phones for of course active client, something important. Anytime I'll take calls, but I've learned that I need to really... I am getting older. I am retired and I do want to enjoy life while I can. And so what it looks now is, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays are my primary days of work and Tuesdays and Thursdays, I try to get out with some old friends of mine from conservation and I play some golf or I ride my motorcycle. And then weekends, I try to leave one day on the weekend for myself, if I can.

Karen Bataille:
So I learned to put boundaries on my time a little bit more. And it's not that I don't ever... I try to get some work done either before I go play golf or after I play golf. So I just keep up my follow up that I need to do with potential clients, but I really put some boundaries on it. And so when I set closings or inspections, I try to keep those days available for me so I can do something else.

Tim Chermak:
Obviously, there's always going to be exceptions. And I think that's one thing that a lot of people misconstrue about time management or work-life balance. When you hear these people who have incredible work-life balance, someone might hear, "Holy crap, you're making $275,000 a year and you only work four days a week. How do you do that?" It's like, well, you mentioned, "I try to time block Tuesdays and Thursdays for more of my personal life enjoyment things." And so people immediately hear that and they think, "Wow, Karen never works Tuesdays or Thursdays." It's like, "Well, no, that's not true." I'm sure you're taking appointments. You're obviously still checking your email. If something comes up, you do have to address it.

Karen Bataille:
Yes.

Tim Chermak:
So it's not like, "Oh, my phone's on airplane mode. And I just go off the grid every Tuesday and Thursday."

Karen Bataille:
No.

Tim Chermak:
It's more like you're carving it into your schedule. That all things being equal, ceteris paribus, I'm going to try to take these couple days every week and have a little fun and not go out of my way to schedule showings or listing appointments or things that on these days. So assuming there's no fires, you almost treat those days, it sounds for you Tuesdays and Thursdays, as a mini weekend. You're probably still doing some work, but it's more like 80% of that day, hopefully isn't spent working. And I think that's the takeaway that I think, many realtors... Especially once you get successful, many realtors need to realize it's never going to be perfect. It's not like, "Hey, if I'm on a time block Monday to work on some big project then I'll just have zero distractions."

Tim Chermak:
Or it's even like, for those of us who have tried to lose weight, if you're on a diet and you're trying to either lose weight or gain muscle or whatever, it's not that you're going to have perfect days of eating or exercising for a hundred days in a row without any slipups or cheat meals or whatever. It's more that, hey, you're hoping that 80 to 90% of the time that you do it right. So that the other times when you screw up, it's weighed out by the fact that 80 to 90% of the time you stuck with the plan. And I think that's the key to work-life balance, is knowing that, yeah, it might be a Tuesday and you are planning to go golfing, but whatever, a crazy phone call comes in and you have to address something, you can do that. But at least then you can still enjoy your day of golf knowing that the world isn't crumbling around you.

Karen Bataille:
Right. Yeah, it turned out pretty well. I will admit, sometimes it does give me a crunch, but that's okay. I still get out, I'm getting some exercise and some fresh air because if I didn't do that, I'd be pinned behind my computer constantly. So I'm doing it for me and for my health too, to try to get out and move around and stuff.

Tim Chermak:
Well, I think it's really inspiring. And I should say that, it is inspiring to hear someone is dedicated to working more four days a week. And yet you're still bringing in $275,000-

Karen Bataille:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
... a year. That's incredible. I think it goes to show what you can do if you plan your lifestyle ahead of time, versus just like, I will take any appointment that comes in at any time for any reason, because I just so desperately need money. So that's really, really cool. If you think about it, you could probably scale your income even more if you are willing to work six days a week like most realtors are. But the cool thing is you have made the conscious decision like, "Well, I don't really want that. Maybe I could make 300, $350,000 a year in GCI, but if I had to work six days a week or some days, or some weeks even seven days a week, that's not really worth it to me, because at the end of the day, if you don't have time, what do you have?

Tim Chermak:
If all the money is stacking up in your checking account, but you don't have any time to enjoy it, what's the point. So you mentioned that you ride motorcycle.

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
A, that's badass. B, what are some of the cool trips that you've gone on across the country?

Karen Bataille:
Oh man. One of the coolest ones is just this year. I took off with a friend of mine from Columbia and we rode up from Columbia up to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and met up with some Michigan. I belong to a group called Motor Maids and it's the oldest women's motorcycle club in the country that's formed in 1942. And one of the original founders is still alive. She just quit riding a couple years ago. So anyhow, we met up with Motor Maids up there in upper peninsula of Michigan and toured around the UP, and then came on back down the west coast of Michigan back into Columbia. So we rode about 2300 miles in six days. Oh, eight days, sorry, eight days.

Karen Bataille:
And it was wonderful. I just cut this umbilical cord to real estate and a friend of mine who I worked pretty closely with here covered me while I was gone. And that was an epic trip. I've ridden a Sturgis as well.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Bataille:
And then last year in Utah, I was out on my adventure motorcycle and managed to crash it off of a ledge and somehow survived.

Tim Chermak:
I saw that.

Karen Bataille:
Got back beat up pretty good.

Tim Chermak:
I saw the aftermath, you shared pictures of what the bike looked. And you basically rode the bike over an effing cliff.

Karen Bataille:
Yes.

Tim Chermak:
And it literally is a cliff, I'm not exaggerating. You rode your bike over a rocky cliff. And I'm looking at the pictures, I'm like, "Okay, if I didn't know that Karen was the one sharing these pictures of her bike, I would assume whoever drove that bike over that cliff is a 100% dead. There's no way that you would've survived that. So I'm looking at you like, "Holy crap, that's incredible that you're alive and yet you kept riding." And so it's just so cool that in this retirement career, and I'm saying that with air quotes, for those who can't see the interview, because I know that you're listening to this on a podcast. But in retirement, that you're now making quadruple the money you had made in your regular career, you're traveling the country on your motorcycle, even when you're back in Columbia, you're often working four days a week. Congratulations.

Karen Bataille:
Thank you, man.

Tim Chermak:
That's really cool. I know that even for Platform Masterminds, a couple of the times when we do our annual client Mastermind events, you've rode your motorcycle to the actual event.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. San Antonio was an epic trip too. I went by myself and rode down to our San Antonio Mastermind for that trip. And that was cool.

Tim Chermak:
So Karen, what have been some of the most successful ads or videos that you've done to get your GCI and get your business to this point? Because obviously we could probably talk for another hour just about the results of everything of this incredible life you have in traveling the country and work life balance, but let's get into how you actually got there and the mechanics of how you grew your business from 60 grand a year to now very near 300. Because obviously it didn't start incredible. How long did Platform actually take to start working for you, in the sense that you felt like, "Okay, I have a 100% made the right decision?" Because often I ask this question on podcast and I've heard answers anywhere from 90 days to 18 months, is when I really knew that it was working. So for you, what did that timeline look, of when you felt good about the decision?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I started in May of 17, and that whole first year I ended up probably in the red in terms of what I invested and what my ROI was. I was also working with Commissions Inc at the same time. Since I had two sources of income, I had a pretty good year that year, but Platform wasn't killing it for me.

Tim Chermak:
You signed up in May of 2017.

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
So I want everyone to hear that, I'm not going to edit that out of the podcast. I want to focus on that, your first seven months, let's call it. The remaining seven months of 2017, because you signed up in May.

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
You were negative. You did not get enough closings in 2017 technically to even cover your cost of the Platform strategy and paying for the ads and all that. So I want to draw attention to that, because look at Karen several years later and her business is quadrupled to $275,000 in GCI and that's while working four days a week. But her first seven months at least, or, or was it a full year?

Karen Bataille:
It was almost a full year. What I struggled with was, how to deal with all leads coming in.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. But I want to-

Karen Bataille:
I really struggled with what to do.

Tim Chermak:
... draw attention to that, that you were losing money and yet for some reason you stuck with it. Even while you were also running ads with Sync.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I talked to you and we talked about it. And you talked me off the edge in terms of, you were like, "Listen, just let it go. Go all in with Platform and it's going to work for you." And so I followed your advice and moved on and dropped Commissions Inc. Part of that was, Commissions Inc wasn't cheap either. So I was probably investing $3,500 a month.

Tim Chermak:
Which is-

Karen Bataille:
A lot of money.

Tim Chermak:
Which is a large... Yeah, that's a large monthly-

Karen Bataille:
For somebody not making a lot, right?

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. No, that was probably more than half of what was coming into your business every month, was going out just in terms of close market marketing expenses. Because you had both Platform and Commissions Inc. So it took, let's say a year, a full year before you really deep down could honestly look at the results you were getting from Platform and be happy about it. Actually feel like, "Okay, I made the right decision." My question is, when it takes that long, because I know that there's people listening to this podcast right now that are in that year. They are living that year in their life. They're in that zone where it's like, "Hey, I've been investing in this for whatever, six months or eight months or nine months. And I'm just not seeing all the closings that I see from these success stories. I'm getting leads or I'm getting clicks or I see some activity but it's not translating into closings yet." For you, Karen, what was it during that first 12 months that made you stick with it and not just abandon ship?

Karen Bataille:
I'll be honest, I figured out, I didn't figure out, I learned. I like systems and I went to a Mastermind and Alvarez and Durst.

Tim Chermak:
Oh yeah.

Karen Bataille:
About how they did their David in particular, talked about his follow up. And I implemented that at some level. I've scaled it back since, but I implemented that and that got me into a more systematic approach with dealing. Because I realized I was getting a lot of leads, but I wasn't touching most of them at some level. The follow up was coming in, but I wasn't touching them. And so I implemented some of them and I started to see results. And people responding to some of the emails then that I was sending out and that turned it around. I just got better at doing follow up and it really turned it around. Then I started seeing results. I'm not the best video shooter. I resolved that for next year I'm going to put out a lot more videos and we'll see what happens to my business next year.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. I think everyone-

Karen Bataille:
I think you can ask Sam about that. I think I frustrate him sometimes.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, I think everyone always says that, "My new year's resolution is to film more videos." And that's something that even our successful clients say. So even someone like Karen who's had a success story worthy enough of being interviewed on the Platform Marketing Show is still saying, I want to film more videos next year.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah, absolutely, 100%. So over the weekend I sent Sam four ads worth of stuff.

Tim Chermak:
Awesome. Okay, cool.

Karen Bataille:
I've got some more, I need to pick it up. I think I'm really going to see, I'll keep doing my four days a week or so four or five days a week and probably increase my GCI next year, if I just pay attention and do the work with videos.

Tim Chermak:
So for you, a huge part of it was actually making a commitment to attend the Mastermind because-

Karen Bataille:
Absolutely.

Tim Chermak:
... we have seen this so often with our Platform realtors that are on the cusp of breaking through success. They're not necessarily even struggling as much as, "Well, I'm doing fine or I'm breaking even, or I have some closings, but it's not this incredible success story like I see with some of these other agents in Platform." And then they attend a Mastermind and for whatever reason, it just changes everything for them. Because I think they in person see other agents that are running the same strategy. At some deep emotional level, when you actually meet face to face some of these people and learn from them, the learning happens at a more transformational, deep level than it does if you do a Zoom call or you watch an online training from a YouTube video or something. There's things I have said at Platform Masterminds and some of the talks I've given that people have came up to me afterward and be like, "Hey Tim, that talk seriously changed my business. I completely see this in a new way now I'm so glad I'm here. I really think this Mastermind is going to change my life."

Tim Chermak:
And it's something I've probably said 50 times before on Zoom calls with agents, but hearing it in person being in the room with other agents, it just hits different. When you're in a live environment. Because I actually know the exact Mastermind that you're talking about when David Durst and Aaron Alvarez gave that presentation. And Aaron, by the way, for those listening who don't know him, Aaron is a Platform client in the Phoenix, Arizona area. And so they had given a presentation basically just on how they follow up with leads. Because most agents with Platform are getting anywhere between a hundred to 300 leads a month, and so you have to have some system for following up with these leads. And they just shared, "Hey, here's what we're doing. Here's what works for us." And that just changed everything for Karen. I remember that was when, I think that was March of 2019. Is that right?

Karen Bataille:
No, it was before that, I think. It might have been Minneapolis, 2018 maybe.

Tim Chermak:
Okay. So maybe it was February, March of 2018 then. Because I think we've done a couple down there in Florida for our Platform client Masterminds, but we always-

Karen Bataille:
Maybe it was Naples. Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, we've-

Karen Bataille:
A midyear one.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. We always press really hard to get the agents to attend Masterminds because we see the impact that it makes. And obviously, I'm hearing your story now realizing that hey, for you a Mastermind made a huge difference and we don't even charge for it. It's not like we're selling tickets to the Masterminds and trying to make money off it. We actually lose a pretty substantial amount of money putting on Masterminds because we have to organize this whole event and pay for all the AV rental and room space and flights for our team and all that stuff and hotels. And we don't have any income from the event, we're not charging. But we still want everyone to go because I hear stories like this so often, where you had already been in the Plat-fam actually for whatever, it was 18 months, two years at that point. And the Mastermind was really what was the spark that got that fire going.

Tim Chermak:
So, again, in that first year, Karen, I want to circle back to this question. What do you think was the emotional reason that you stuck it out with Platform in that first year. You said that, "Hey, I wasn't even breaking even, I was losing money. I was not getting enough closings to justify sticking with Platform." What gave you the faith, I guess, that if you stuck it out, that would actually change?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I felt it was on me, it wasn't Platform. I was getting the leads, I wasn't doing the work. And so the whole concept of the high hanging fruit really resonates with me, because Zillow leads and even Commissions Inc leads. Those are people that are ready to go right now and there's no relationship building and no cultivating of those people. Because I found over time, folks that come through Platform, they already know me before I even meet them. And so, it was the whole concept of reaching people before anyone else does, really resonated with me. And I knew it wasn't Platform, why I was having issues wasn't Platform, it was solely rested on me and I needed to do the work.

Karen Bataille:
And when somebody showed me what worked for them and I implemented it, I was off and running at that point. I'm a good learner, I need systems though. And so I put that in place and it turned everything around. And so I just knew it was me, not the system. It was better than anything else I tried and I knew it would work. Leads were coming in like crazy, I just wasn't doing what I needed to do to convert them.

Tim Chermak:
Karen, what do you typically spend in an average month on the actual Facebook ads? So on top of obviously the Platform marketing fee, what is your actual ads budget on a month of business?

Karen Bataille:
My budget around $850 to $1,200 a month depending on what we're running.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Bataille:
So I would say on average probably 8, 900 bucks or so ad spend.

Tim Chermak:
okay. And I think that's really interesting to note because a lot of people will start with an ad budget much lower. Because we tell people early on in the Platform program, you probably only want to start with about $600 or so in ads because we don't want to overwhelm you with leads. I've just seen that so often. And it sounds you're one of those people who maybe your first six months you had so many leads coming. It was almost overwhelming and it freezes you because you're like, "Oh my gosh, I have so many leads to follow up with." And then it's hard to even get started because you see that pile growing and growing every day. And so often I tell people, "Hey, start with a more reasonable amount, maybe 600 bucks a month in ads."

Tim Chermak:
But I think a lot of agents get addicted to that number and they don't want to spend any more than $600 a month in ads. And one thing that I've realized in recording these podcast episodes is that, very nearly every person who's successful enough and we've seen the growth in their business to basically justify, "Hey, I should interview you on the podcast. You have a really awesome business growth story." Almost all of you guys are spending about a thousand dollars a month on your ads. And so one of the relatively straightforward takeaways that I've seen is like, well, it's not that everyone that I'm interviewing on these podcasts as these case studies or success stories, it's not that they're necessarily better at follow up or that they're always filming more videos or that they're just better than you if you don't have these results. A pretty good chunk of their success can be explained by, well, if you're spending 500 bucks a month on ads and they're spending a thousand, they're just getting twice as many leads as you every month, all things being equal.

Tim Chermak:
So right there, that makes them a 100% more effective because they're simply spending more on the ads. And so how do you handle the fear around that? Because I think a lot of people honestly, let's just call it what it is, they're afraid of spending more money on marketing. They're, "Nope, nope. I have to stick to this $500 budget. I can't afford any more than that." And I'm like, "No, you don't realize it's costing you to stay at that number. Please let's spend a thousand for six months and just see what happens in your business, versus spending $500 on ads." So how did you originally, I guess, handle that fear around, "Oh man, do I even have the money? Will this work?" To justify investing a thousand dollars a month on the ads, because that's obviously on top of Platform and on top of whatever other expenses you have in your business.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I don't know that I ever truly feared spending the money. I was just paying attention to advice from folks like you who know more than I do about marketing. I've even dropped $500 on a listing ad, because you said, "Well, just put a bunch of money on it and let it fly." And it works. So you just see, there's a hundred thousand people in this town and probably 75,000 possible homeowners.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. Right.

Karen Bataille:
And so there's not a lot of people here, but I don't know how saturated I am in the market. But I think my retargeting audience is large and a large percentage of the people in this town. But I had just seen that it works and I get the return. So there's no point in be... If you don't invest money, then how can you expect to grow?

Tim Chermak:
So now I know Karen, what everyone is probably thinking as they're hearing you say that is like, "Yeah, well, if I was making 275 grand a year, I would spend a thousand dollars a month." But I'm guessing you probably, at some point were spending that before your business really blew up.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I was.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So it's really a causation type thing. I think a lot of people are reversing the cause and effect here, because they're waiting for their business to be successful before they'll increase their ads budget. And by the way, I've even talked to really successful Platform clients. And I won't name names obviously, but I've talked to Platform clients that I'll just say this, they're very successful and people in the Plat-fam know who they are. They're very well known in the Plat-fam community. So I won't say their name, but even they were afraid of spending more money, because they're like, "Well, I'll increase my ads budget a lot more if my business grows." And I was like, "No, that's reverse in cause and effect. You have to increase your ads budget so that your business can grow."

Tim Chermak:
At the end of the day, let's say that you're spending $600 a month on ads, not even $500 but $600. And you think you're hot shit because you're spending $600 a month on ads, that feels like a lot, right? Well, going up from $600 to a thousand is only an extra $400 a month. You're not really spending a thousand because you were already spending $600. It's only an additional marginal $400 a month extra. And I like to think in annualized terms, because I think when you put things in 12 month terms, it just makes it easier to wrap your mind around and make clear less emotional decisions. So if you annualize that, "Hey, I'm going from $600 a month in ad spend to a thousand, it's an extra 400 bucks a month.

Tim Chermak:
So 400 times 12 is obviously $4,800 a year. So let's just round up to be generous and I'll call it $5,000. If you think increasing your budget by 66%, because adding an extra $400 on top of the $600, isn't going to get you at least one more closing, I would tell you to quit Platform right now and probably find a new job entirely. You shouldn't be a real estate agent if you don't think that extra $5,000 a year in ad spend isn't going to get you at least one extra closing. Because that closing to you, obviously depending on what market you're in and what your price points are and everything, one closing for most people is going to be somewhere six to $12,000 depending on the market. And all that extra money is only $5,000. And I'm saying if you did that, most people could probably expect an extra, I don't know, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 closings from that amount of money.

Tim Chermak:
So when you think in annual terms versus monthly, I think it's easier to be like, "Oh, okay, well that's really not that much money, an extra five grand a year." Because that's a lot of leads, $5,000. And that's the difference. For whatever reason, when you think about it in monthly terms, it's scary. "Oh my gosh, going from $600 a month to a thousand." It seems a big leap, but it's like, really? Is it? No, it's not. It's not that big of a leap. In fact, once you start spending a thousand dollars a month or more, we have people who spend $1,500 every month on ads, they don't miss it because they just get used to it. And their business grows so much as a result of that now they have so much more money coming in. They don't even notice that they're spending 1500 a month on ads because often their business grows by $10,000 a month or more.

Tim Chermak:
So I think you hit the nail on the head and you said, no, I started spending more money on ads and then my business became successful.

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
I didn't do that after to celebrate that I now had a successful business. "Oh cool. Now I'm going to increase my ads budget." No, you were one of those courageous souls who has no problem flying your motorcycle off a cliff and has no problem increasing your ads budget to a thousand dollars a month. You just like, "Hey, this is what I have to do. I'm going to do it." And now you're successful. So Karen, what are some of the actual ads when you look back at how your business has grown in these last four years with Platform? Which by the way is super cool that you're a Platform client four and a half years later.

Tim Chermak:
That's remarkable in the marketing industry or in the real estate industry to stick with a company for four and a half years. There are really not people, let's just be honest, who stick with Curaytor for nearly five years or who stick with BoomTown or Sync or they stick with any other marketing company for five years. That's incredible that you've been that successful with us for that long. So as you look back at that, what are some of the signature ads where you look, you're like, "Hey, that particular ad or that video kicked butt for me."

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. One of my all time favorites was the Thanksgiving ad we ran last year.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Bataille:
It was Kelsey who I worked with pretty closely and I shot that video. And boy, that one just, it really touched hearts. I think it was really good to thank businesses here in town. And it just did really well.

Tim Chermak:
For those listening who don't know which a video she's referencing, we wrote a video script for our Platform clients, it was for Thanksgiving. So the narrative of the video was thanking local small businesses because, if it's a coffee shop, "Thank you for having such amazing hot chocolate." Or if it's a local pizza place, "Thank you for having such amazing pizza." And then we feature a string of locally owned small businesses in this video. And I think it ends with the punchline is like, "Hey, they've always been there for us. Let's be there for them this year, try to support local, shop local." And that's a pretty constant theme in Platform videos for those who haven't noticed, is that we always try to feature local businesses when we can. Because part of building your brand over the long term, isn't just that, hey, you're an expert realtor. We want people to realize that yeah, of course they know real estate. They know how to buy and sell homes, but they also are an expert on the community in general.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. And it was a cool one because it was right smack in COVID. Business who were struggling, so just reaching out and highlighting them a little bit. I don't know if I made a difference in their business, but it was the right thing to do. They were struggling, there's no question about it. So it was a perfect video for that. And then more recently, we ran that sandwich one, the sandwich ad. What's your favorite sandwich here in town?

Tim Chermak:
Oh, okay. Yeah.

Karen Bataille:
And that's probably my number one engagement ad.

Tim Chermak:
Oh, that's funny. Really? Okay. So this is a photo ad, right?

Karen Bataille:
I don't get, sorry about that?

Tim Chermak:
This was a photo ad, right? Or was this a video?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. And it's still getting engagement, and it's been running for a couple months now and it just gets a lot. I don't get a lot of engagement, I'll be honest, but that one it just took off. And I got lots of engagement on that.

Tim Chermak:
That's really important to point out that I've had a lot of people message us recently, or they share this with their account manager Platform that, "Hey, I'm getting a lot of leads or maybe I'm getting a lot of clicks, but my ads don't get a lot of engagement. And I hear other people say, oh, they're getting all these comments or shares or likes or all this engagement. Is there something wrong with my page? Or is there something wrong with how I'm doing these ads because I'm not getting engagement." So I think it's really important to emphasize what you just said there, is that historically, when you look at your ads, they really don't get a lot of engagement. You're not getting tons of comments or shares or whatever, and that's fine because your business has still over the years quadrupled.

Tim Chermak:
So there absolutely are times where you will be one of those Platform agents who's in a market where for whatever reason, people in your area don't like to comment on stuff. So you might have a video that gets 10,000 views or 20,000 views and there's not a lot of comments.

Karen Bataille:
Right.

Tim Chermak:
And someone else in some other market might have the same amount of video views on basically the same video script in their area. And it's whatever, hundreds or thousand miles away. And they have 50 comments on it. And they're like, "Wow, look at all the engagement I got." And you're left there thinking, "Well, why aren't I getting all that engagement?" And so I'm here to tell you, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how many people are commenting on your stuff. What matters is in the analytics behind the scenes, which we're tracking for you, obviously, how many people actually watched the video or how many people clicked on it? Because there's plenty of people who will watch something on Facebook or click, or they'll read the post, but they don't want to leave any evidence. They're not going to leave a comment because they don't want people to know that they're engaging with you.

Tim Chermak:
And honestly, my mom is an example of that. I use her as an example all the time. She's someone who uses Facebook probably an hour or two a day. She often gets home from work and she'll check Facebook at night. And I know this because every time I'm home, she has her laptop or her phone with her. And she's just seeing what's happening but she never likes, never comments on anything. She basically leaves no evidence that she's a Facebook user because she doesn't want people to think of the, oh she's on Facebook all day or something. And that describes a lot of people. There's a lot of people who will watch videos, they will click or they'll read your posts, but they're not going to leave a comment necessarily. And so don't let that discourage you if you're not getting a ton of engagement on your post, because look at Karen.

Tim Chermak:
Karen, historically you've said you probably get less engagement than 95% of Platform realtors on your posts. Your stuff doesn't get a lot of comments for whatever reason, it just doesn't.

Karen Bataille:
No.

Tim Chermak:
But the proof is in the pudding. Look at your business, your business is quadrupled and that's what matters.

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I've had people recognize me here and there. "Oh, you look familiar." And then they realize who it is. But I had another client come in this weekend that was a Platform client from Tennessee. And they happened to be in town.

Tim Chermak:
Oh, okay. Cool.

Karen Bataille:
their son goes to school here and they decided they wanted to buy him a condo in town. And so I sold him a condo, but he follows my stuff and he was here this weekend because eventually, probably in the next couple years they're going to sell their place in Tennessee. They're going to come here and spend between $600 million.

Tim Chermak:
Wow. Okay.

Karen Bataille:
And they came in, we went and had coffee and chit chatted and they're a couple years out. They're high hanging fruit.

Tim Chermak:
Sure.

Karen Bataille:
But he makes comments, mentioned my videos. He comment regarding my videos, that they enjoy watching. Other client from California I picked up through Platform, sold them house and same thing. She commented recently. I stay in touch with a lot of these past clients and the same thing, she's enjoying my videos.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. You know people are seeing them because they'll actually tell you that. So Karen, as we wrap this up, I want to ask you one final question. What would your advice be to someone who recently signed up for a Platform? Or maybe they didn't recently sign up, maybe they're three months in and they're just struggling right now. Maybe they are straight up frustrated that they don't have the results they thought they would had. They think they're doing what they're supposed to do. Maybe they're filming videos, they have leads coming in, but they're just not getting closings yet or they're not getting appointments yet. And they feel frustrated because they see these success stories and it's not them yet. What would you tell someone? Because you have four and a half years of sample size a Platform now. So you have a pretty significant perspective that they don't have. What would you tell them to someone who's recently signed up for Platform just to encourage them? What final thoughts do you want to leave for them?

Karen Bataille:
Yeah. I think it's going to work for you. You absolutely need to follow the advice of what your account manager is telling you to do. You need to do that, but you also need to do the work. The phone's not going to ring. And I think it's critically important to stay with the leads that you get and at least try to touch them at some point in time, whether it's through phone calls or emails, because they will convert folks. If they realize suddenly you're not a bot responding, that's what worked for me.

Tim Chermak:
Right.

Karen Bataille:
I stuck with it. And I've been successful with it, I can do a much better job with my ads and my videos than I do, to be perfectly honest. So if you're doing what your ad manager's telling you, then they just work it, treat it like a business. Get up, I do it early in the morning, get it done, move on, do what else I need to do for the day. But follow up with these folks. It will work. Whenever I get a call from somebody who's thinking about Platform, I'm happy to talk to folks because it honestly does work. And I've been down the road with others, Zillow and Commissions Inc and others, nothing works like this in my mind. So trust the system, pay attention what Tim tells you and what your account manager tells you. It will work.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome. Well, obviously anyone's business can improve. There's things that I'm sure you can work on, that you mentioned that you want to do better next year. But at the end of the day, you've got a pretty cool thing going where many weeks you're working four days a week, you get to ride your motorcycle across the country. And somehow in retirement you figured out a way to quadruple your income. So that's a pretty cool story. And I'm hoping that plenty of people on the Plat-Fam after listening to this podcast episode, get to know Karen Bataille a little bit and your story, because I think it's a story worth sharing. So Karen-

Karen Bataille:
Thanks Tim.

Tim Chermak:
... thank you for joining us on the podcast and hopefully I'll see you in a couple weeks in Naples for the Mastermind.

Karen Bataille:
I'll be there with bells on. In fact, I'm stretching it out and making it a vacation.

Tim Chermak:
Awesome tax deductible vacation.

Karen Bataille:
Thanks. Appreciate it.