The Local Video Marketing Strategy To Scale From $7m to $30m In Sales Volume (Without A Team)

Ryan Clegg:
.... Courage is a competitive advantage. You've got to do it. I was working in real estate part-time while I was doing another part-time job. I'm the primary provider, financially, of the house. We've got four young kids. I couldn't afford for it not to work.

Ryan Clegg:
And I knew just the things that everyone else was doing wasn't going to get me ahead. And I didn't know how to get more hours out of my day. I had to figure out how to multiply my efforts. And when we stumbled across Platform, we thought, "This is it."

Tim Chermak:
This is the Platform Marketing Show, where we interview the most creative and ambitious real estate agents in the country, dissect their local marketing strategy, and get the behind-the-scenes scoop on how they're generating listing leads and warm referrals.

Tim Chermak:
We'll dive into the specifics of what marketing campaigns are working for them, how much they're spending on those campaigns, and figure out how they have perfected what we call the Platform Marketing Strategy.

Tim Chermak:
This is your host, Tim Chermak. I'm the founder and CEO of Platform, I love marketing, and I talk too much. So let's dive in.

Tim Chermak:
All right. Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the platform marketing show. My name is Tim Chermak and I'm here today with Ryan Clegg. Ryan, how you doing?

Ryan Clegg:
I'm doing great. Thanks for having on, Tim.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan is a realtor. And I hope I pronounce this right. Ryan you're in Loudoun County?

Ryan Clegg:
Loudoun County. Nailed it.

Tim Chermak:
Cool. I know that because of Remember the Titans. He's kicking butt. I love leading with numbers. That's right. You guys probably can't see him because this is a podcast, but he's just flexing here on the Zoom.

Tim Chermak:
Ryan has grown his business in a very, very substantial way the last three, four years. I love leading with numbers. I hate when podcast episodes start with fluff and getting to know each other. So I'm just going to lay it out there.

Tim Chermak:
Ryan's business has grown from about $7 to $8 million or so in sales volume to about $30 million in sales volume in the last couple years. Going from 7, $8 million in sales volume to about 30.

Tim Chermak:
Now that doesn't just happen. That's not just a, "Oh this year I got a couple more referrals than I did last year." That's a very serious business growth, that's not random. It's not a coincidence.

Tim Chermak:
And I know that you film a lot of videos. So let's start talking about that, Ryan. Explain to me why you think videos are so important in your business there in Loudoun County.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah, it was. I mean, I'll even go back a little bit further. When we started, we really saw almost doubling our business every year once we started filming videos, and posting those, and retargeting people. And so it really is a lot of our success.

Ryan Clegg:
And why videos is, people get to know you like no other advertisement that you could put together can. A postcard in the mail mailbox, a billboard on the side of... Everything's two dimensional, and you really get to know somebody.

Ryan Clegg:
And when you're getting ready to purchase one of the biggest assets, or you're going to sell one of your biggest assets that most people have, they want to make sure their realtor is someone that they know, like, and trust. And video is the quickest way to do that to someone that you've never met before.

Ryan Clegg:
And so that's what it is. It's all about relationships in this business. It's all about relationships in life, I believe. But when you're trying to build relationships with people that you don't know, video, they can hear you, they can see you, they can know your personality, and they can identify with you. And I think that's why we do it.

Tim Chermak:
And Ryan, you're spending about a thousand dollars a month or so on the actual advertising budget. Is that right?

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
So just to be clear, he grew his business from $7 million to $30 million. It's not just because he's spending $10,000 a month on marketing. Most of that growth is being driven by about $1,000 a month he invests in social media ads.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, do you have a big team structure? Is that how you got to $30 million? Or how many assistance and agents do you have? What does that setup look like for you?

Ryan Clegg:
My wife and I sell real estate together, and we have four awesome daughters. And so our lives are very full. So she's stepping back a little bit to be more at home with them, and I'm taking more of the real estate stuff.

Ryan Clegg:
We do have a buyer's agent. And I would say 99% of the volume that we have is directly from us, and they are only handling what we can't handle. Because driving people around, it just takes up a lot of time.

Ryan Clegg:
So we're a lot of teams. The team members are kind of doing their own business, but under the umbrella of a bigger team. Literally they are just an extension of who we are. And that's how we've grown.

Ryan Clegg:
And this is a good nugget for anybody who's thinking about building a team, or they're growing, or they're hitting those pain points where they're like, "What do I do? Do I hire an admin or do I bring on a team member? What do I do first?"

Ryan Clegg:
100% get an admin. I thought early on, "If I want to expand my volume, I just need to get more agents doing more deals. And then we'll just naturally grow." And that is even more painful.

Ryan Clegg:
So if you think you're at a pain point now, just get some agents that don't know what they're doing, and put them on your team, and see if you're just getting buried further. 

Tim Chermak:
And you can be a mentor, and a babysitter, and a recruiter, all at once.

Ryan Clegg:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Get a great admin, and that alone will just free up so much of your time to go after it.

Ryan Clegg:
And before an admin... So here again, nugget number two... Is grab a transactional coordinator that just is paid transactionally. That way, when you go through the slow months, you don't have that constant expense.

Ryan Clegg:
So get transaction coordination off your plate first by somebody who's just a la carte. And then when you want something more personal and someone to take on more of your business, grab a great admin. They're absolutely worth their weight in gold.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, I love talking about specifics on the podcast, because we just want to provide as much value to all the realtors listening as we possibly can. So I love diving into numbers and specifics.

Tim Chermak:
When you talk about hiring a TC, hiring an admin, what are you paying for those? How much do you pay every transaction to the TC? And is your admin salaried, or how does that work?

Ryan Clegg:
So TCs out here, we're in a little bit more expensive area of the country, and so cost of living's more expensive. And so our transaction coordination is $500 a pop. I know at different places you can probably find in someone for $250 to $300.

Ryan Clegg:
But they're really, really good. And they're actually better at the transaction stuff than I am. They see 100 transactions go across their desk a month, where a really successful agent might only see 15. So they know it really well.

Ryan Clegg:
And then our full-time admin is now salaried. She is part-time, but she really works full-time during the busy spring season, and then works a lot less. So we've got her on part-time, but she's on the payroll. So 20 hours a month and about $28 an hour.

Ryan Clegg:
And we bonus her at the end of quarters or end of the year, depending on how well we're doing. That way again, we don't have... To really do this job well in our area, you need a $75,000 a year employee.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. Because I was going to say, if you're paying $28 an hour... Is that what you said?

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
That's a great wage, obviously. Lots of agents think about, "Okay, what's the cheapest way that I could hire a VA?" Or, "Can I hire someone from India and pay them $5 an hour type thing? Or if I have to hire someone here in the States, what will I get for $15 an hour?" It's like, "Well, the answer is not much."

Tim Chermak:
If you're looking at someone who's going to be a true professional and add value to your business, the type of assistant or admin that you might want your clients interfacing with... Not meaning to insult anyone, obviously, who's out there listening to this. Maybe you're working for $15 an hour somewhere, and you're working up your career ladder. That's awesome. Rock on.

Tim Chermak:
But in a position like that, you get so much more if you're willing to pay 20, 25, $30 an hour. That's something actually a lot of our top clients at Platform have in common, is when they share what they're paying their team, the jaws drop in the room. Because sometimes it's like twice as much what other agents are paying.

Ryan Clegg:
Well, I went through so many others at a lower pay scale that it was just so painful. Because you get them in at like $15 to $20 an hour. And then all of a sudden, you spend all this time to train them, and they go find a better job.

Ryan Clegg:
And then you're back to square one. You're advertising, you're recruiting, you're training. You get them on, and then they're not that good.

Tim Chermak:
And what's the cost of that? Of constantly your time being spent on non-productive activities, not selling real estate?

Tim Chermak:
Karen Hall, who's a Platform realtor up more, I think Fairfax County. I think she's near Alexandria, Virginia. I think she mentioned to me at the last Platform mastermind that she pays her admin, her executive assistant, like $70,000 a year.

Tim Chermak:
And when she said that, there were some other agents in the room, and they're all just like, "What?" Because they're thinking it would be like half that. They're like, "Well I was thinking it would be a really great salary if I paid them 36 or $40,000 salary." And it's like, "Well maybe in some areas of the country, that's true."

Tim Chermak:
So obviously every market's different. Your cost of living is higher. But it's absolutely true that if you spend a little bit more on that, they'll return far more than that, because of the problems they solve for you. So that's really interesting. I actually didn't know that you had an admin. Rock on.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, I want to get back to the topic of videos, because I think that's really your secret sauce that's not exactly a secret, is that you film lots of videos, and you do a really good job at those videos too.

Tim Chermak:
So how many videos do you film every month? On any random given month of the year, how many new video ads are going out from the Clegg team?

Ryan Clegg:
We try to film almost every listing. And so in the spring... I've got two listing videos to shoot on Wednesday. So there's two this week.

Ryan Clegg:
I was took my daughter shopping yesterday. She's dying to go shopping. She's the one daughter I have that loves shopping. And so I'm in the outlet malls, and I'm like, "I'm going to film a video right here."

Ryan Clegg:
And so I'm like, "Honey, the cost of getting a new spring outfit is indulging me with this video." And I'll send it to the Platform guys and they'll edit it. But again, we do a lot of higher end videos that are videographer, and a lot of different things, and bells and whistles. And then we also do ones that are just on the fly, "Let me show you why I love Loudoun County so much. And let me film this really quick video." And once you edit it-

Tim Chermak:
On your phone?

Ryan Clegg:
On my phone. On my iPhone, yeah. Put some music to it, and the magic happens and in the editing room. And so to answer your question, the goal is two a month. That's the goal.

Tim Chermak:
And I think most months... I mean looking at your account, you're probably doing a lot more than two a month, most months.

Ryan Clegg:
Definitely in the spring market, yeah.

Tim Chermak:
And you put a lot of creativity and thought into your videos. Because some agents... Let's just use an example of a listing video. You just film a video of you walking around the house, and then you run a Facebook ad, Instagram ad, you put the video on YouTube of saying, "Hey, new listing. Here's some bullet points of the house." Whatever.

Tim Chermak:
And it's better to do that than do nothing, right? Because a lot of agents don't do any advertising of their listings, and they wonder why their brand isn't growing.

Tim Chermak:
You take it to another level though. I know that you invest in a videographer, because of the higher end nature of the price point that you work in.

Tim Chermak:
In your market there in Loudoun County, it's kind of like an outer suburb of DC. Would that be fair to say? It's more of a country area. Rolling hills. You have a lot of homes that have acreage. But a lot of those homes are $600,000 or $800,000 or $1.4 million.

Tim Chermak:
And so you're probably not rolling up to those and filming a cell phone video. That's probably not going to impress the seller. So I know that you invest in hiring someone local, and they produce just gorgeous looking footage. You use some drones.

Tim Chermak:
I remember you had a video where to showcase the acreage... I think it was last year... The video started with you riding around on a four wheeler, I think, just showing basically the vast expanse of how big this property really was.

Tim Chermak:
And that extra dosage of creativity is really what makes your videos pop, but also the quality of those videos.

Tim Chermak:
So when that's popping up on someone's Instagram feed or on Facebook, it grabs their attention, because they're like, "Wow, this is a really well thought out, professional video."

Tim Chermak:
And I'm sure these people are thinking, "If I'm going to list my house, that's probably the agent I'd want to list with, because it looks like he's actually putting a lot of thought into how he films these videos, and how he promotes these listings."

Tim Chermak:
So I know that you said you found someone, Ryan, who... Was it a student you said, or someone who's an up and coming videographer, that you're able to get a pretty good deal? Could you share how you've structured that agreement and how you've made that a win-win?

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. So a lot of kids these days, they're getting into videography. Instagram photos, curating beautiful lifestyles. And he was a high school grad that I met through an organization that I support here. And he was looking to get into video.

Ryan Clegg:
And I said, "Well, I'm looking to get into video as well. We should team up and do this together." So he was pretty green, and so was I, in shooting video. But worked together. And I actually bought him his first drone.

Tim Chermak:
Oh, wow.

Ryan Clegg:
I was looking at what it would for me to do these drone videos out here. And I said, "By the time I pay the drone guy for four videos, I could own a drone." Well, I have no interest in learning how to fly a drone. I don't want to spend time doing it.

Ryan Clegg:
So I just said, "I'm going to buy this drone for you. You give me six drone videos for free, and you could have the drone and do whatever you want with it." And so I literally gave it to him. I never figured how to fly it.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Ryan Clegg:
So we've partnered in ways like that, where he's always upping his gear too. I mean, every time he runs into another photographer when we're shooting a home, they always start talking about their gear.

Ryan Clegg:
But as we've given him more business, he's been able to get better equipment, and then he's able to go shoot other properties as well. So it's definitely been a good match. And there are young people in every community looking to get into video. So find one and it's a good relationship.

Tim Chermak:
And you can be that opportunity for them. Because obviously, if you're working in the platform marketing program, a lot of what we do is video centric. We're asking realtors who work with Platform... Of course you're going to film videos of all your listings. That's kind of the price of entry. But also, you're filming market update videos every month, and all of the other retargeting videos that we do.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, how much do you pay your video producer, per listing video? Is there a standard arrangement you have there?

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah, it used to be $350 a video, and we're up to $450 a video now.

Tim Chermak:
Okay. And again, to put all that into perspective... Because maybe some agent in the Midwest is like, "Oh I could never afford to pay $450 to have a video of every listing, because I'm selling $170,000 houses."

Tim Chermak:
It's like, "Cool. You probably don't, because there, it would probably only cost 200 bucks, because Ryan's obviously in a part of the country where he's selling $800,000 homes." That's kind of your average.

Tim Chermak:
And so when you look at, obviously, what the commission check is on an $800,000 transaction, $450 is a lot less scary than it maybe looks.

Ryan Clegg:
And we just gave him a raise. I mean, we were rolling at $300, $350 for the first three years, and we bumped it up like $25 a year per video. And now I think it's up around $450 now.

Tim Chermak:
Okay. And that's obviously a great wage for them, even at $400 a video, because they probably spend an hour filming it. Probably two, three hours editing it. So they're still making a great hourly wage on that if you run the numbers, so that's a win-win.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, what are some videos besides listings that you've done? And actually, before I even go there, how do you approach filming a listing video, to find whatever it is that makes that home interesting or creative? Because what you don't do is you don't just walk in, and film a quick video, and tour the house.

Tim Chermak:
You always seem to have some creative angle or perspective, whether it's rolling up on a scooter, or driving around a four wheeler on the property. You find a way to have fun in your videos and you always find a unique way to showcase the house. So what is your mentality when you're planning your listing video shoots?

Ryan Clegg:
I wish there was more planning involved. A lot of it is off the cuff, to be honest. When you're running so fast in a busy market like this, you're just trying to do as much as you can as quickly as you can.

Ryan Clegg:
But it's honestly, I look around the house, and I see... Now this is before the videographer gets there. I am thinking ahead of time... But if there's a basketball hoop in the yard, I'm going to go, "Okay, I can do a basketball entry."

Ryan Clegg:
And again, the videographer makes me look so great. It's not just me. But I played basketball in high school. I know how to shoot a jump shot. I can palm the ball.

Ryan Clegg:
And so we do things where he's kind of coming around me, like a 360 kind of deal. There's a crowd cheering in the background. It definitely looks kind of epic. There are parts where it goes into slow mo.

Ryan Clegg:
And it's just really cool, because I think of myself like the person that's scrolling through Facebook, and they need something that catches their eye. We call it the hook. What's that thing that's going to hook them?

Tim Chermak:
Yep. You have five seconds.

Ryan Clegg:
Yep. If it's just me in front of a door, that's not going to be it. There's always got to be some kind of movement. And if I can't find anything... Oh yeah, we've got these electric scooters. I was driving the electric scooters through the town, and he was catching me via drone.

Ryan Clegg:
Four wheeler, that was just on the property. I called the homeowner said, "Hey, listen, I grew up riding four wheelers. Can I ride your four wheeler?" She was like, "Great." So I tear around the yard in this four wheeler, which was so much fun. I love that.

Ryan Clegg:
To baseball. This family love baseball. And from the moment we started the listing appointment... All of his kids play baseball. So I'm in the backyard with a baseball, and I'm self pitching them to me, and I'm cracking home runs. And it just adds something that catches people's eye.

Ryan Clegg:
Now, if there's nothing, I just walk up the street, or I run towards the camera, or just do anything that you can to make it interesting. One had a trampoline. I'm like, "I'm going to jump on that trampoline."

Ryan Clegg:
Another one had a playground in the backyard with a swing set. I'm like, "I'm going to do the swing set." One, I go down the swing set slide, and I don't catch myself, and my butt hits the ground. And he's like, "Oh, do you want to do it again?" I'm like, "No, that's funny. We're rolling with that one."

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Ryan Clegg:
And so literally, look around the house. What is the unique aspect of it? And just have fun with it.

Tim Chermak:
So, I mean, anyone can go to your page and just see the creativity that you inject into your videos. Because it's clear that you don't just show up, and hit record with an iPhone, and just walk around the house. You always have that interesting element that just makes the video pop.

Tim Chermak:
And I think that's why you've been so effective building your brand and scaling your sales volume from 7 to $30 million.

Tim Chermak:
Now, another really interesting thing about your business and your growth is that when we look at, where are all those leads coming from? Where are you getting all these listings? Or where are these buyers coming from?

Tim Chermak:
It's not that you're running a bunch of hardcore lead generation ads, and you're just buried, ass in seat, for two hours every morning, following up with leads. You're not time blocking time to just set appointments with these new leads for hours on end every morning, like maybe some agents have the stereotype of, all successful agents are just lead generating every morning.

Tim Chermak:
You don't do that. The vast, vast, vast majority of your business is not you calling people, it's people calling you, right? So the leads are inbound, and it's a result of, obviously, the videos and the retargeting that you're doing within the context of this platform strategy.

Tim Chermak:
So I'd love to hear your thoughts, Ryan, why do you think so many agents think that the game is about leads, and lead conversion, and setting appointments? And why do you think that creating a local brand, where people call you, so often takes a backseat to just leads, leads, leads, leads?

Ryan Clegg:
I will answer that. Can I go back real quick? Because I think this will add value to anyone thinking about creating videos.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah.

Ryan Clegg:
My framework. So the framework is literally, the hook is at the beginning... This is granular... So it's five to 10 seconds of that hook, and then it's a video montage of the inside of the house.

Ryan Clegg:
So my videographer gets the B-roll, and it's like, the living room, the kitchen, the upstairs, the backyard... So people are going, "Okay, I stopped to watch this guy." And now there's this montage, that's like three to five seconds, of the inside of the house.

Ryan Clegg:
And so now they're like, "Okay, now I want to stay and actually see the house." And then it's me out front going, "Hey, I'm in front of Winslow Court, four bedrooms, five baths. Come and see it."

Ryan Clegg:
And then we walk around the house. And I really try to go as quickly as I can, because we want to keep the video short. And at the end, I'm usually on the back porch. I'm outside, another place where it's kind of pretty, and ask them to schedule a showing with me.

Ryan Clegg:
And I always end with a tagline. Because it's always hard. How do you end a video? Well, if you know how you're going to end it every single time, the same way, it's so easy to end it and get out. And now people look for it. And mine is just, "Until next time, enjoy Loudoun."

Ryan Clegg:
So if I'm stumbling through the end, and I don't know how to stop, I just go, "And until next time, enjoy Loudoun." I wave, the drone flies off, and we're done.

Ryan Clegg:
But think about it in those five segments, and you can do a video every single time without too much thought or effort.

Ryan Clegg:
So why lead conversion? I think it's how those companies make money. That's why they tell you you have to do it that way, because that's how their systems are set up to work.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. I mean, there's definitely this narrative out there that the top agents, what really separates agents making $5 million in sales volume a year from agents doing $15 million, it's that the agents doing 15 million must be spending hours every morning following up with their leads, and calling their leads, and calling their sphere and basically prospecting.

Tim Chermak:
And if you were to tell these people that, "Well, in the last couple years, I've grown my business from $7 million to basically $30 million, and I don't spend hours a day calling people. People just call me," they would just be like, "No, that's impossible. There's no way that could possibly work, that all that business is inbound. What are you actually doing, Ryan? You're lying."

Tim Chermak:
But that's how you've done it. You've filmed videos and you've built a brand, where now people call you when they're ready to list their house, or people call you if they're ready to finally buy a house.

Tim Chermak:
You're not necessarily chasing people. You're not getting to the office early and spending the first two hours of the day following up with leads in your CRM or making outbound phone calls. The phone basically rings and the business comes to you.

Tim Chermak:
So I'm assuming that's because of all the videos that you film, and you're staying top of mind with people. Do people mention that they've seen your videos?

Ryan Clegg:
Oh yeah. All the time. I mean, I think a lot of it is... It's still hard work. I mean, real estate's still a contact sport. You're still following up with people who followed up with you. Just because they call me, that's not the last...

Ryan Clegg:
We don't sign a listing agreement over the phone. You're still having to follow up, you're still having to be in touch with them. But they're definitely coming really warm. They're coming hot. But the work is still there. You still have to work hard to get them.

Ryan Clegg:
So I'm a big fan of relationships and building relationships, with my people, with our clients. And what a lot of other coaching companies tell you to do... And this is very good... Is make a bunch of calls, pop by people's houses, write handwritten notes.

Ryan Clegg:
And I do all those things. And I was doing all those things at the very beginning. And it definitely set me apart, because I was working harder than a lot of other agents out there.

Ryan Clegg:
But it wasn't like pouring gasoline on the fire, like videos did.

Ryan Clegg:
I mean, a lot of times you don't want to call people, even if they're your friends. You're like, "When am I going to call them? What am I going to talk to them about? They're going to know that I'm just kind of prospecting for business. Now I've got to find them on Facebook and see what cute thing they did with their kid."

Tim Chermak:
Like, "Hey Tim. How's it going, Tim. Just wanted to check and see how you are. How are the kids, Tim?"

Ryan Clegg:
How are the kids? And so even though you love these people, and they love, you still feared making that phone call.

Ryan Clegg:
Well now, the videos... It's sort of like the phone call I didn't have to make. People keep seeing me, they keep seeing how I'm doing. And it really helps build my sphere.

Ryan Clegg:
Because that's how we build this thing. It's our sphere of influence. And then the videos, not only... I build my business in my sphere and referrals from sphere.

Ryan Clegg:
Well, it's so much easier for my sphere to refer me when they go, "You've got to use my agent. He's doing things that nobody else is doing. You got to check him out. Check out his videos on Facebook."

Tim Chermak:
Exactly. It's like, "Just go look at his videos." The videos provide the intermediary handoff, so that someone can easier make a referral. Basically removes the friction from the normal process of making a referral, if because you have this content out there, the people in your sphere can then tell their friends who aren't in your sphere, "Hey, just go look up this guy on YouTube or look up this guy on Facebook. He does all these great videos."

Tim Chermak:
That's a lot easier and less awkward of a referral than saying, "Hey, you have to call my friend Ryan. Here's his number. Call him." Because that's a little bit straightforward. But when you have those videos that act as that intermediary, I think that's how you get more referrals.

Ryan Clegg:
And then if they look at you one time, now they're on your retargeting list. So now they're going to see you all the time.

Tim Chermak:
Exactly.

Ryan Clegg:
And so unlike that thing where they might look at that handwritten name and number from that phone call with a neighbor, and say, "Who should I use for real estate?" If they just go on Facebook and look, now we've got them, and we're following them around.

Ryan Clegg:
So it's really allowed my referrers to be excited about referring us, because they see that we are doing different things than every other person. And it just gives them confidence when they refer.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And so again, growing from $7 million to now basically 30 million, to be crystal clear here, yeah, Ryan has got some new leads, and he's converted some leads that were total strangers, and that came from some platform ads. Of course that happens every now and then.

Tim Chermak:
But 99% of it is because you're filming these videos, and because you work with Platform, and we set up the retargeting, and we have this ad strategy going for. You're basically just getting way more referrals from your sphere.

Tim Chermak:
And the number of times that someone introduces someone to you, you're just increasing the likelihood that when maybe one of your friends from church, or one of your friends from kid's school, or whatever, is out and about with their friends, grabbing pizza and beer, or grabbing coffee or whatever, that if someone at that table says, "Hey, we're actually really thinking about selling our home this year," you're increasing the likelihood that, in that moment, if someone says that, that your friend is going to be like, "You know what? That's cool. You've got to check out my friend, Ryan Clegg. Go look him up on Facebook."

Tim Chermak:
Because maybe prior to you filming all these videos, that person was still your friend, and that person may have left a positive review on Zillow, or a positive review on your Google website listing. But in that moment, what wasn't happening maybe three or four years ago was they wouldn't just have the courage to speak up, and be like, "You've got to work with my friend, Ryan. Look at his videos online." Right?

Tim Chermak:
So I'm guessing that that type of conversation is happening just with far more frequency, because you're just staying top of mind so much more efficiently now. And that's really what's fueled the growth from $7 million to 30.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Ryan, how often have you had people out and about actually recognize you? Like if you're at a local restaurant, or a coffee shop, or the bank, or whatever?

Ryan Clegg:
It happens quite a bit. The first time it happened, I remember I was getting ready to watch my daughter in theater. And we're in this area for probably like a year and a half at the time. And she was in a middle school musical production.

Ryan Clegg:
I'm standing in line, and this girl walks by me and was like, "Hey," and waves. And she's going back to her part of the line, and I'm like, "I don't know who that is." And then I later talk to her, and she says, "Oh, I've seen all your videos and I know who you are."

Ryan Clegg:
And it was so interesting that there was this familiarity with me from her that she felt like she knew me, even though we had never met, because she had just seen stuff that was happening on Facebook.

Ryan Clegg:
And so since then, I was like, "Wow, this really works." And since then, all the time, I went into my personal pharmacy, and the guy's like, "Hey, you're the guy that shoots the video. They're so cool. I love watching all of them."

Ryan Clegg:
Til just this weekend, on the soccer field sidelines, one of the parents said, "Can I have your autograph?" And I was like, "What do you mean? What are you talking about?" Like, "Oh man, your videos... You may be famous one day."

Ryan Clegg:
Now, they were just kidding. But again, I wouldn't have brought up I was in real estate, just randomly to people on the soccer field sideline, but they saw me. So a lot. A lot.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome. Because you're the type of person who's not overly salesy. With what I know about you, you're not the type of realtor who's consuming content from Grant Cardone, and you're just telling everyone you meet everywhere, "Hey, I'm a realtor. Do you know anyone thinking about buying, selling, or investing in real estate?" You're not handing out business cards when you go to church or at your kid's soccer game.

Tim Chermak:
You're a very relaxed, chill, family guy, that you don't want to push your business on other people. And so that's really cool that this works for you, that people are coming to you saying, "Oh man, hey, can I have your autograph?" That's awesome.

Tim Chermak:
When you have stories like that, it's not really surprising that your business has grown that much. Because I mean, really the basis of all a consumer research, when people call and do polls, or during politics, during election season, people get phone calls of pollsters asking, "Who are you going to support?" Or "What are your thoughts on such and such issue."

Tim Chermak:
Obviously, with whatever 350 million people are in America... Whatever it is... Obviously when Gallup does polls, they're not calling 350 million people for that poll to be valid. They're calling usually 1,000 people or 500 people, depending on the population, for it to be a statistically significant sample size.

Tim Chermak:
And so I guess the whole philosophical premise of the entire polling industry is that you can usually just poll very small number of people, and those people's opinions genuinely reflect a much larger data set of millions of people. The percentages are probably the same.

Tim Chermak:
So if you call 1,000 people and 60% of them believe this and 40% believe that, those percentages will probably hold even across a population of millions of people.

Tim Chermak:
So where I'm going with this is that if you've had just a couple people in your personal life say, "Oh yeah, you're that realtor. I've seen your videos," what we actually know is that there's probably hundreds of people, maybe even thousands at this point, because you've been working with Platform for, what? Three, four years now.

Tim Chermak:
There's probably thousands of people that recognize you. Maybe they're just not courageous enough to walk up to you and say it in real life, like, "Oh Ryan, you're that realtor." But they're thinking it.

Tim Chermak:
And it makes perfect sense then that your business has grown like it has. Being recognized and having so many people tell you that they're seeing your videos... I mean, I'm imagining that a lot of listing appointments you get, or a lot of people call you... Are they actually telling you on the phone, Ryan, "Oh yeah, I've been seeing your videos"?

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
So you know without a shadow of a doubt that it's the branding and the marketing you're doing that is driving a lot of that business. They're actually telling you that.

Ryan Clegg:
Oh yeah. They're actually telling us. And while we're in a big, big county, there are definitely agents who have been doing this a lot longer. I mean generationally. Second and third generation real estate people.

Ryan Clegg:
And we're catching some of them, and we're passing others in a very short amount of time. And I think it's because of how visible we are, and it's those videos that do that.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. I mean, filming all these videos... And in a second here, we'll get into what are some of the specific videos you filmed beyond the listing videos... But filming all of these videos, at this point you're no longer faking it, right?

Tim Chermak:
Like some people say, "Yeah, you have to fake it til you make it." But it's like, well, if you're selling $30 million of real estate every year, you're certainly not faking anything.

Tim Chermak:
But early on, when you were just getting started and you were building that brand and that momentum, what videos do for you is it makes you seem maybe more successful than you actually are, than you actually were.

Tim Chermak:
And at the end of the day, honestly... I mean, let's just be straightforward... People want to feel like they're working with an agent who's successful. No one wants to think that, "Oh, I'm working with an agent who's just getting started," or, "I'm working with an inexperienced agent," or, "I'm working with an average agent." They want to feel like they're working with a top successful agent.

Tim Chermak:
And so by filming more of these videos, you're giving people that mental ammunition, like, "Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm working with Ryan, and I mean, I see these videos everywhere. So he must be really, really successful."

Tim Chermak:
And you were doing that even before maybe you were technically super successful, and it kind of created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. So do you want to get in some of the other videos that we shoot, outside of listing videos?

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. I mean, your listing videos absolutely crush, but I do want to talk about some of the specifics of the retargeting ads, and the other videos you do highlighting local small businesses.

Tim Chermak:
Because someone clicks on one of your listing videos, let's say, and they're going to be on your retargeting list. And that means that we can stay top of mind with that person for 180 days after that. In some instances a full year, 365 days, if it's a video of you retargeting, something native on Facebook.

Tim Chermak:
And so we don't want to annoy these people with retargeting ads all about real estate, right? We want to show them that you're a cool guy, that you're a family man, that you're really invested in the Loudoun community.

Tim Chermak:
And so a lot of the retargeting ads aren't about real estate. In fact, I always tell clients that the best ads are the ones that don't look like ads. Because it flies under the person's bullshit radar, and they don't realize they're being advertised to, because it's just a photo of you at a local coffee shop, or it's a video of you giving a shout out to one of your favorite local businesses.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, share with us maybe two or three of the most successful ads that you've run, the most successful local videos, that really maybe didn't even have anything to do with real estate.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. I mean, the one that we just did recently kind of comes to mind. This is like full circle, Tim. So the gal at the Rite Aid pharmacy who would do my shots every year looked at my names, started following me on Facebook, started seeing the videos, da, da, da, da. Brought me out to a listing appointment, thinking about listing their home. And I'm like, "How do you know me?"

Ryan Clegg:
When I first came to the door, I didn't know who she was, because she had a mask on. And she told me, "I remember you from the pharmacy." I was like, "Oh yeah. Okay."

Ryan Clegg:
So thinking about listing her home, and then she's not quite sure if she's going to list it now, list it later. She's got other friends who are agents, and so we'll kind of wait and see.

Ryan Clegg:
And one of the videos was for a coffee shop. And this was a special coffee shop. It was a coffee shop that helped folks in the community with special needs have jobs once high school was over, and once government programs for them stop, as they phase out of high school.

Ryan Clegg:
And so it's an awesome coffee shop with a mission to help this underserved group of people in our communities. And so it's called Simply Be Coffee. And so I film this coffee shop, have a great time talking with all the staff, and it was just such a fun day for me.

Ryan Clegg:
And then I get an email from her like two days after we shoot the video. She said, "My friend saw this video, she sent it to me, and then I saw it again on Facebook." She said, "The fact that you support kids with special needs in our community... There is no other agent we'll be using."

Ryan Clegg:
And it's just amazing. And that is literally full circle. I wasn't doing it to try to pull on heartstrings or anything. A buddy of mine owns this business, so I was just helping him out.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And you were filming-

Ryan Clegg:
And it resonated with people watching it that a friend of hers, who I'm sure I don't know, forwarded on to her, and she got to see it. So now that I know that video's been shared, which is pretty cool. And there's no other agent that she would rather use.

Ryan Clegg:
And I could have done every dog and pony show, I could have had the greatest listing presentation, I could have done all the things I was supposed to do at that listing appointment...

Tim Chermak:
A glossy binder and a PowerPoint presentation.

Ryan Clegg:
Yes. But if it was a year later that she was actually going to list the home, a lot of that would've been forgotten, and then she'd be kind of back to square one, like, "I remember I liked Ryan. I like Carol, my neighbor, who's an agent. Who do I go with?" But now I feel like we've just been cemented into their minds as the agent they want to use. So that was a cool one.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And you are filming these videos every month too. So as you said, it's not that, "Oh, I found this cool coffee shop that helps people with disabilities and provides employment opportunities." You're not just doing it to pull on heartstrings. You're filming these videos every month, highlighting some local small business. And this month just happened to be one of these coffee shops that you love.

Tim Chermak:
And one thing that I loved about the Facebook ad that we ran for that video... Because I know which exact video you're talking about... Is you even said in the Facebook ad... And keep in mind, this is running as a retargeting ad. So anyone who's clicked on any other of Ryan's listing videos or anything, they're going to see this video pop up next time they go on Facebook.

Tim Chermak:
You even said in the Facebook ad, "Oh, and by the way, this is not one of those charity businesses with a mission, where you go and support them even though the product isn't very good, but you're doing it just because it's for a good cause. I've got to tell you guys like the coffee here is actually amazing." You ordered... Was it an Irish...

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. Irish latte. It was the week of St Patrick's day.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So I even remember that specific detail from the ad copy, that you even mentioned, "I ordered the Irish latte and it was amazing." Because I just thought that was brilliant copywriting there, that you even mentioned that, "Hey, to be clear, this business has a mission, and they're helping people with disabilities, but don't go here just because you think it's supporting a good cause. The coffee's actually amazing."

Tim Chermak:
And it's little things like that make ads so effective, that you're adding that little extra commentary, that extra perspective, that extra narrative to your marketing, that makes it feel not like marketing.

Tim Chermak:
I mean, someone watching that video does not feel like they're being advertised to. It doesn't look like a realtor's ad, trying to get business. There's not a call to action on that video, at the end, where you're like, "Oh, by the way, if you're thinking about selling your home this year in this low inventory market, here's my cell." It's just you trying to promote local businesses.

Tim Chermak:
So what are some other examples of maybe these monthly videos where you highlight local businesses? Have you ever gotten business from other businesses, or maybe gotten a referral from a local small business owner that you highlighted, or had people mention that they've seen your local small business videos? Because I know you're pretty consistent at filming at least one per month.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah, we are. I miss a few here and there. I'm not exactly sure. I'll have think about that. Oh, here's another one that we did just recently. It wasn't a monthly video, but again, I'm trying to do more than the monthly videos. I want to do more than that. I want people to get to know me.

Ryan Clegg:
So we're having a team meeting, or a team dinner party. We're having a dinner catered, we're at a friend's house who's got a great backyard, and they love to entertain. So we're going to entertain our folks there.

Ryan Clegg:
And it's the night before, and I'm like, "Wouldn't this be great to film?" Again, not a lot of lead time. I give my videographer a call. I'm like, "Listen, this is what's happening. Can you make it?" He's like, "My schedule's open. I'm going to be out there."

Ryan Clegg:
And it was awesome. He's filming the serving of this great dinner, and people mingling, and laughing, and enjoying great food and friends. And I pull out front, I go into the backyard. Well, everybody's in there, and there's great hanging lights, and the ambiance is great. The sun is setting.

Ryan Clegg:
And I just talk about what home is. And I'm winging it. And it wasn't that great. I could have made it a lot better had I had more time to think through it, but-

Tim Chermak:
But that's maybe what made it so great.

Ryan Clegg:
I talked for 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds of the B roll, it's a 60 second thing, and it looks super cool, and I think people are going to go, "Wow, he's not just promoting his business, he's promoting what home means, what family means, what a house means to somebody."

Ryan Clegg:
And so we just did that last week. So time will tell if that was successful at all. But it definitely looked cool, and it was just filming what you're doing.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. I mean, you mentioned recently, you took your daughter shopping, and you're at outlet malls, and you're like, "Hey, let's film a random, quick video." It's just documenting your day-to-day life so that people can keep up with what you're doing.

Tim Chermak:
And that's perfect for retargeting, because the types of photos... Because it's not all videos, right? Sometimes it's just photo retargeting ads... The type of content we want to run for retargeting with Platform, just all that it has to do is just remind people that you exist, and remind people that you seem to be a cool, likable guy. It doesn't have to necessarily have any connection to real estate. And so even just filming something quick like that totally works. You did a-

Ryan Clegg:
So people are like, why don't I just do that on my own? Well, I mean, you know, Tim, better than I do, but I think maybe 5% of the people that actually follow you will actually see that creative post of me taking my daughter shopping. So 5% of 1,000 isn't very many.

Ryan Clegg:
But if I give it to you guys, all of a sudden, everyone in my retargeting list can see what I'm up to. So 100% of people seeing what I spent time doing is so much better than 5%.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And again, the proof is in the pudding, of, no one's business spontaneously, randomly, by coincidence grows from $7 million to $30 million, right?

Tim Chermak:
I think it's even more impressive considering that you're not one of those hardcore alpha male, "I'm going to get to the office every morning at 7:30 and start pounding the phones and generating appointments." No, that's not Ryan Clegg at all.

Tim Chermak:
Ryan is a very chill, relaxed guy that... You're going to put in the work, you're going to film videos and create content, and you're going to do what you know that you need to do, in terms of creating content. But you're not spending hours a day just cold calling people, asking for business. You let the content convince people that you're an expert realtor, and that you're just kind of a cool guy in general. And then you figure they'll call you. And guess what? They do.

Tim Chermak:
So Ryan, actually one other video that you did a great job on was the Thanksgiving one last year, where it was like, "This year I'm thankful for..." And then you listed off a bunch of small businesses.

Tim Chermak:
I mean, that one was just a film. I'm assuming your video guy filmed that one, because the video quality on that one was really great. And you highlighted a lot of local small businesses in that video. And that's just another great example of-

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. Well, I'll say this. I mean, the great thing about working with you guys is when we don't have ideas, you come up with them for us. So we're coming to you because you're the marketers, and you're giving us great ideas. We just have to execute on those ideas.

Ryan Clegg:
So I'd love to be able to sit here and say, "I've done it all myself." And we're great, but really we just follow the plan that you guys lay out for us. We sprinkle in things that we go, "Oh, this might be good too." But we couldn't do it without direction from you guys.

Tim Chermak:
Thanks, man. Well, looking back at maybe your real estate career as a whole, Ryan, but also your experience working with Platform these last... Is it three years? Or how long have you been in the Platform? Four years. Wow. Okay, that's crazy.

Tim Chermak:
Looking back on these last however many years it's been, if you could go back and do anything differently, knowing what you know now about what actually made a difference in your business, and what actually created the results, what would you do differently?

Tim Chermak:
Or maybe a different way of phrasing this question is, if someone were starting the Platform marketing program this month, they just signed up, and maybe this is the first podcast episode they're listening to, hoping to grab some inspiration from a seasoned vet like you, what would you tell them if they were just starting Platform?

Ryan Clegg:
I would say... And this is what I'm telling myself right now, and I need to probably up this... But up my ad spend. So you guys want me to spend more, but it's so hard to let go of these hard earned dollars.

Ryan Clegg:
But I definitely need to even increase my ad spend even more with the volume of business that we're doing currently. So it's going to feel painful at first to spend money on that ad spend, but it's definitely worth it. So that's one thing.

Ryan Clegg:
The second thing is, just film videos and be yourself. You're starting this thing out, and you're looking at other people, and I'm sure you guys are sending them to other successful Platform folks to see what they're doing.

Ryan Clegg:
And it could be overwhelming, because you're like, "Oh, I'm not like that guy. I don't have the enthusiasm that Ryan has. How does he get so excited about each of these listings." And that's just me.

Ryan Clegg:
But if you're more of a teacher by nature, well then teach through your videos. Tell people about the real estate industry like you know it well.

Ryan Clegg:
Or maybe you just love coffee, and you've been to every coffee shop in the area. Well, just do coffee videos. Find your own voice. Don't try to be somebody else. And you'll resonate with the people that you want to resonate with.

Ryan Clegg:
You get rich in your niche. Everybody says that, but no one really wants to do that. We go, "Well, if I eliminate people, then that's business I lose."

Ryan Clegg:
And it's like, "No, no, no. Be yourself, and you are going to get the people who are going to want to use you every time. And there's enough people like you to have a very successful business wherever you are. You don't need to be liked by everybody." And if you're liked by everybody, you're vanilla, and all of a sudden you fade into the background.

Ryan Clegg:
So find your authentic voice, be yourself, and just start shooting videos with whatever you like to do most. Whatever jazzes you up, do that. And if you still can't figure it out, talk to your ad manager and go, "This is what I'd love to do. This is who I am. These are my kids. This is what I do during the week. Help me come up with something." And they're very creative folks, and they'll help you do that.

Tim Chermak:
And you work with Sam, right? Yeah. And so for those listening to this who aren't in the Platform marketing program, what Ryan is referencing there is, he works with a marketing manager at Platform, and you guys chat like every week on the phone. And you're tossing ideas back and forth of, "Hey, here's what video you can film this week." Or, "Hey, here's a campaign we can do coming up."

Tim Chermak:
And so it's not like Ryan has to sit there and come up with creative ideas, on top of being a top producing real estate agent. He doesn't just have hours every day, obviously, to sit around and daydream about marketing ideas, because he's selling $30 million worth of homes a year.

Tim Chermak:
That's what Platform can provide, is we give you ideas, and some video scripts. And you don't always have to follow it exactly, because often Ryan puts his own spin on it, but it gives you an idea of, "Oh, okay, cool. That's a video that I can film this week."

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. We just hired someone today. So excited. Another part-time person. And one of the roles that they're going to have is coordinating our videos.

Ryan Clegg:
So one of the videos that I want to do, that I have not done yet, is the small business video. And just getting the time to coordinate my schedule, a business owner, schedule my videographer, schedule all that thing, I haven't had time to do that. But I know it's so important.

Ryan Clegg:
And so literally one of the roles of this new admin is to help me film more videos.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah. And what she'll be able to do for me will be 10X, when I pay her, in what I get back.

Tim Chermak:
This just goes back to something that we often talk about at Platform Masterminds, and that's, courage is a competitive advantage.

Tim Chermak:
No one likes going out and filming videos, because people are usually horrified when they see themselves on camera, or they hear their voice for the first time on a video, and they're thinking, "Oh my God. That's what I sound like?" Or, "That's what I look like?" It's like, "Yep. That's how everyone's been seeing you for the last several years. So it is what it is." And they're just terrified, and they don't want to film videos anymore.

Tim Chermak:
But I honestly believe courage is a competitive advantage. Because just the fact that you're going out there and filming multiple videos every month, it doesn't seem like you're necessarily building this super profitable business in the moment, because just because you run one video doesn't mean you're all of a sudden going from $7 million to $30 million.

Tim Chermak:
But it's that cumulative effect, over time, of every month there's new videos going out. And it builds your brand. And let's be honest, Ryan, most agents are simply not willing to do that. Most agents lack either the courage or the discipline to film multiple videos a month.

Tim Chermak:
So they might film one or two random isolated videos a year, but there's no retargeting strategy. Well, there's really no strategy at all behind it. And then they'll say, "Oh, I tried videos. It didn't work."

Tim Chermak:
Compared to someone like Ryan, who every month for the last four years has been putting out pretty much multiple videos that are being run to his retargeting audience. It really shouldn't be surprising that you've scaled your business to where you've scaled it at, if that's the commitment you made to it. Courage is a competitive advantage.

Ryan Clegg:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Well, hey Ryan, any last parting advice that you would have for agents listening to this, or anyone skeptical that they could grow their business the way that you know you have? What would you tell them?

Tim Chermak:
I mean, any advice for maybe someone who's listening to this right now, and they're thinking, "I'm thinking about signing up for Platform, but I don't know if it'll actually work for me," or, "I don't have the money. The investment really scares me, of doing this, because I would need it to work, to pay for it. I don't have the money where if it doesn't work, I can't absorb that kind of investment." What would you say to someone like that?

Ryan Clegg:
I would say courage is a competitive advantage. You've got to do it. I was working in real estate part-time while I was doing another part-time job. I'm the primary provider, financially, at the house, we've got four young kids. I couldn't afford for it not to work.

Ryan Clegg:
And I knew just the sort of things that everyone else was doing wasn't going to get me ahead. And I didn't know how to get more hours out of my day. I had to figure out how to multiply my efforts.

Ryan Clegg:
And when we stumbled across Platform, we thought, "This is it. This could be the thing that we really know, this is the future of marketing, this is where it's all going."

Ryan Clegg:
We're in a pivotal time in life. The history of the world has never seen before what we get to do, and how we can connect with everyone around the globe because of this thing called the internet and social media.

Ryan Clegg:
And so you guys were leading the way on that, and we said, "We need this. Our family needs this. Our family of six needs this." And we couldn't afford not to fail.

Ryan Clegg:
And so we had to do something that was sort of bold, that other people weren't doing. We knew it was going to be a financial commitment, but I talked to enough people in Platform, and I knew it was something that was going to work for us if we put in the time and effort. And so we went for it.

Ryan Clegg:
So you got to do it. I mean, if you want to continue to be on the trajectory that you are, keep doing what you're doing. If you really want to go further, faster, you need to get on that same train with other people who are doing it, and they've already figured it out.

Ryan Clegg:
You do not need to reinvent this wheel. It's been figured out for you. And so jump on board.

Ryan Clegg:
The other thing I would say too is we weren't this successful in a vacuum. Again, we are real estate powered by relationships. We always say that, but it is the relationships of our people who support us. And so we want to give back to those people.

Ryan Clegg:
And so one of the biggest things that we've done is client parties. And oddly enough, we film those, Tim. Do you know we film our client parties?

Ryan Clegg:
And we're in a pretty equestrian area. And so it's a lot of fun. There's a horse race that we go to every year. And we film that. And it's gals in big hats, and guys and bow ties, and it's so [inaudible 01:01:48] that, we cater that, and we spend a lot of money on that.

Ryan Clegg:
Again, Seth Godin talked about this a long time ago but it's your tribe, and you're building one in person, and you're building one online. And you want your online tribe to join your in person tribe. And those are the people that are going to help you succeed.

Ryan Clegg:
Because I didn't just do it on my own. My wife didn't just do it on our own. We didn't just do it because we're filming videos. We did it because these people feel like they're partners with us, and they want to see our businesses succeed. And we want to see their businesses succeed.

Ryan Clegg:
We want to see their families succeed, we want to see their marriages succeed, we want to see them succeed as parents, we want them to exceed as people. We want our community to be better.

Ryan Clegg:
Young Life is a ministry organization that's like very dear to my heart. And we got to be the key sponsor for Young Life's golf tournament this year.

Ryan Clegg:
And it was amazing that, because of the blessing that God has given us in real estate, and the success of it, we were able to sponsor somebody at a high level that we really believe in.

Ryan Clegg:
And we couldn't have done that without hitting the numbers that we do, and we couldn't have done that without the whole thing. It stacks on top of each other.

Ryan Clegg:
It's the hard work, it's the videos, it's the relationships, it's the client parties, it's the follow-up. It's all of that put together that really is dynamic. So that's my parting thoughts there.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. You know, you have a mentality towards your business, Ryan, and towards your brand in Loudoun County, that, "I'm doing this because I'm going to be around five years from now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now. I'm not really worried on what the ROI is of these brand investments in the next four weeks, or the next eight weeks. I'm building a brand that I'm investing in relationships where I may not get a return for five years. I may never get a return, but I'm going to make the investment anyway. This goes over the long term. I know that it will work out."

Tim Chermak:
And obviously, looking at the numbers, it has. So Ryan, thank you for joining us. Thank you guys for listening to another episode of the Platform Marketing Show. Ryan, I'll see you this fall at the Platform Mastermind.

Ryan Clegg:
I can't wait. Thanks so much, Tim.