The “VIP” Client Gift Strategy That Can Triple Your GCI

Karen Hall:
At every single event, my clients say "Oh, we got the candles". Or "oh, by the way, our friend's moving." "Oh, hey, thank you so much for this gift I got last month, I forgot to say, thank you. Let me introduce you, my buddy's going to be calling you. He's buying a house." "He's selling a house." Every single time. Every event has at least two people that walk up to me, that was the last person I ever would've thought of, and they're like, "Hey, by the way, we're thinking about selling and we want to buy a house and we want to sell ours." And I'm like, "You just bought a year and a half ago." It's the last person I expected that every single time.

Tim Chermak:
This is The Platform Marketing Show, where we interview the most creative and ambitious real estate agents in the country, dissect their local marketing strategy, and get the behind the scenes scoop on how they're generating listing leads and warm referrals. We'll dive into the specifics of what marketing campaigns are working for them, how much they're spending on those campaigns, and figure out how they have perfected, what we call, the Platform Marketing Strategy. This is your host, Tim Chermak. I'm the founder and CEO of Platform. I love marketing and I talk too much. So let's dive in.

Tim Chermak:
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Platform Marketing Show. I'm super stoked this morning to have Karen Hall as the guest. Karen is a realtor in the DC area, the suburbs, NoVA, Northern Virginia, whatever you guys call it there. That whole big area of Arlington, and is it Fairfax County? Am I getting that right?

Karen Hall:
Yep.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah.

Karen Hall:
Fairfax County. Yep. It's all in the DMV. The NoVA, you name it.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, yeah. So Karen is absolutely kicking butt there. She sent me a text yesterday, it was like, "Hey, I just looked at my GCI in the last couple years." And it's a pretty cool before and after snapshot of, you did about $7 million in sales volume the year really before you hired Platform. I think it was at the very end of that year. Was it 2018?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I started with Platform in October 2018, I just looked it up. So, that wasn't even credit to Platform at that point and I did 6.8 that year.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, let's just round up and call it $7 million to use an even number, right? And then the next year it eventually increased to what? Or was it?

Karen Hall:
I had closed 20 deals that year, instead of nine, and at $11 million.

Tim Chermak:
Did 11. And then the next year that 11 grew to?

Karen Hall:
2020 was 24 deals for $13.5 million.

Tim Chermak:
Okay. So I mean, really that was the first year that you had essentially doubled your business because you went from about seven to almost 14?

Karen Hall:
Yep.

Tim Chermak:
And this year we're already at $16 million closed under contract. It's in June. And I mean, so that tells me you're definitely on pace to hit $20 million this year. At the current pace you're going, you might get a lot more than that. And again, all this started from a business that prior to really diving into this Platform strategy and going all in on this, you were selling about $7 million a year. So, you're pretty much at the point where you've somewhere between doubled and tripled your business.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
The really interesting thing to me and kind of the first thing I want to talk about, Karen is that you are doing this in a ridiculously competitive real estate market. You're not in some rural small town in the middle of nowhere where there's no competition and none of the other agents are doing anything interesting with their marketing, where just by almost doing anything you can stand out sometimes in really small towns.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Like you're in, maybe you could argue, the most competitive real estate market in the United States of America. I think Washington D.C. still has a record amongst economists as there's never been a real estate recession there, even in the mortgage crisis. Housing didn't collapse there like it did everywhere else. Because there's this automatic enduring eternal demand for housing because of all the government jobs there, right?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, military and government, for sure.

Tim Chermak:
On paper it'd be, "Oh wow, it must be so easy to be a real estate agent there because there's so many people moving in and out and buying houses and there's so much demand." It's like, well yeah, but the other side of that is that there's tons of competition because there's so many realtors. And so you are a really interesting case study, Karen, of showing how this Platform Marketing Strategy can work, even in an insanely competitive market with higher price points. Most of your transactions are 500 plus, right?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, that's part of my success right now is I think I was averaging 550 and this year I'm probably, more often I'm in the 700 to 1.1 billion right now this year. But to your point, so I can't remember how many thousands of realtors are even in the Commonwealth of Virginia. In Northern Virginia realtors are a dime a dozen. And I think the power of Platform is that I always preach about authenticity. And I think when you're a dime a dozen, consumers honestly, when I opened this business, you have to battle the consumers think we're all created equal or we're all not great. We're not highly acclaimed, but we're all the same. And so you're battling consumers thinking you're all the same and it's not even something that's well revered. And so you've got to stand out with a message that you can actually provide something different. And I think Platform's the only way you can communicate that. It gives you literally a platform to communicate who you are and how you're different.

Tim Chermak:
So, when you started, think back to a couple years ago, and maybe you can't remember this, but what was the reason you signed up and what excited you about this Platform Strategy that made you think it was different from other marketing companies out there? Because obviously realtors are one of the most sold to groups in the world. There's tons of marketing companies or coaching programs or masterminds and all this stuff. What seemed different about Platform to you that attracted you to it?

Karen Hall:
It's kind of funny, because to your point, I'm one of those people that has a knee-jerk reaction of, the harder you try to sell me something the less I feel like I need it. And so I'm so adverse to people trying to sell me anything. I sought you guys out. And I had to do it multiple times. I think I had emailed once and nobody got back to me and I was like, "I'm reaching it out to you."

Tim Chermak:
That's funny.

Karen Hall:
I had actually gone to a Grant Cardone 10X Conference and that was my first Cardone conference and I got kind of fired up and a takeaway for me was I needed to be more noisy. I needed to be louder. I needed to be more known. And so I just, I don't know, we started researching and trying to find companies that we thought were doing that well.

Karen Hall:
And even to this day I talk to other agents. I'm like, "You're literally the only company that stays on top of everything, from the messaging, the marketing, the behind the scenes, what's working, all these algorithms." I see agents trying to do it themselves all the time. And I'm like, "I would not even try. The only person I would trust this with is you guys." But it was just something different in the messaging. The testimonials of agents that were like, "No, this has actually made me a local celebrity. It's made me known." It seemed to me like it was selling something different. It was a total solution. It wasn't, "Oh, we're going to do your marketing ads for you." There's plenty of companies. And I tried different ones that just give you leads.

Karen Hall:
And you're like, "That's not what we're doing. We're trying to make you stand out, magnifying and amplifying what I offer uniquely as me." And that it was only for one agent per market really made me feel you could help me communicate that better. But it was a total solution. It wasn't selling leads. It's not even leads, it's relationships. And then the work is on me to get those and to build relationships with them. And I've always worked exclusively by referral. So I was always proud of my numbers. I'm like, "Oh, it's only by referral." You guys are the first silo of business I had in addition to referral, but I feel like it's still relationships. So it works for me.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, it's kind of both. It's not pay per click or it's not buying leads. It's kind of, well we're running paid ads, but the purpose of the paid ads is to actually to help you build your brand and get more referrals.

Karen Hall:
A 100%. And branding is a big deal to me. Branding and marketing I'm kind of passionate about. So it just fell right in line with things that I knew were really important to business.

Tim Chermak:
Karen, how long did it actually take you to feel like you were getting results that was worthy of the investment that you had made into Platform Marketing? Because I remember when you were at, it would have been the Mastermind in San Antonio, right?

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
And things were going okay, you were like, "Yeah, it's fine." And it was at that event, if I remember correctly that you actually crunched the numbers and you realized, "Oh wait, my business is actually really growing."

Karen Hall:
Yeah, that's literally what I looked up. I looked at that note that I sent you guys, because I remembered sitting in the audience and I was like, "Hey, let me look at my numbers." And that's how I pulled up these to compare it to. For me it was about a year, and it wasn't a gradual thing. It was kind of crazy. You're having conversations and people aren't responding. I'm reaching out and they're super vague or the proverbial, "I'm just researching."

Tim Chermak:
Yeah.

Karen Hall:
"I'm just researching. I'm not ready. I'm just researching." That's what they always say.

Tim Chermak:
Which is kind of demoralizing if you hear that in a row for 12 months.

Karen Hall:
Right. I'm just researching. But it helps you refine your responses of, "I love researchers. I like to research too." But right around a year, all of a sudden everyone was contacting. The stories were different. The conversations were different. People were sending me pictures of their dogs. They're talking about their kids. They're talking about their plans, their concerns, their hopes, their everything. And it was all of a sudden, I think I had built up enough credibility. I was even out at a coffee shop and somebody walked by the table and then they came back and they're like, "Wait, I know you." And I think it took a year for people to really get enough content, enough touches, enough exposures to my different who am I and what I'm about, where then they felt like they knew me. And then it was a whole different conversation. And it was about a year, but it happened suddenly where I was like, "They're talking to me, they're sharing. They're not just saying they're researching now."

Tim Chermak:
It was an overnight success that took 12 months.

Karen Hall:
Exactly.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, and that is aligned with this idea of high hanging fruit. And the Platform strategy that like, getting leads is not the hard part. Any marketing company that primarily brags about the number of leads they are going to get you, it's like, "Well, that's the easy part of marketing I got." I mean, honestly anyone with a credit card and a pulse can get leads. If you can fog a mirror, you can get leads.

Karen Hall:
Yep.

Tim Chermak:
It's converting leads and staying top of mind with leads and actually getting to the point where you're having real conversations with those people that are hopefully actually turning into appointments. That's the difficult part of marketing. And I think that's what you're talking about. It took 12 months to get to that point where people actually started talking with you, setting appointments and you kind of rounded that corner.

Karen Hall:
Yup.

Tim Chermak:
If you could go back, seeing what you've seen now, because you're coming up on, in the fall of this year it'll have been three years on the Platform.

Karen Hall:
Yeah. That's crazy.

Tim Chermak:
Which is pretty awesome, because we don't have contracts.

Karen Hall:
Yeah, exactly. Like, wow.

Tim Chermak:
Any month you could quit if you didn't think it was working.

Tim Chermak:
So, that's pretty cool. Now that you're almost three years in, if you could go back and do something different in the first year, is there anything you would have done differently now knowing what you know about what it really takes to succeed with us?

Karen Hall:
I think the only thing I could've changed, because I was pretty proud of myself in that as far as content creation, I would have done more. I think it's always hard if somebody's starting out and they're not comfortable with video, especially, and now you guys are doing some super awesome posts that are just photos. So I think that helps people a little bit to ease into it, but you have to get through that comfort of video, but I would've filmed more video, more content. I was proud because I did those market updates or the local business highlights. I love those, having those monthly, and I have not missed a single month, which I'm super proud of.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Karen Hall:
But there's so many more ideas that you guys throw at us that just getting out of my own way and saying, "Oh, well that's hard. Or it doesn't work in my market." That's been a challenge in some of them of like, "Well, I can see why it works in your market, but it doesn't really work here." But I've learned, just whatever you guys suggest, just fricking do it.

Tim Chermak:
Do it, and it often has a funny way of working out.

Karen Hall:
I know. And then you're like, "Whoa, look at that."

Tim Chermak:
That's cool. Yeah, that's cool. So, one other question I wanted to ask you right away, Karen is time management. How do you do it? If anyone follows Karen on social, they see she's doing everything every day. I mean you have a daily CrossFit wad, you feel like you're traveling all the time. You go out to Deep Creek. Do you have a place out there or do you guys rent usually?

Karen Hall:
No, we've tried. There's one property and one only that we want to buy. So we know exactly which one we want and it's not on the market right now.

Tim Chermak:
Oh, okay.

Karen Hall:
So we're waiting for that specific house. So we've tried different parts of the lake out. So now I'm an expert in that area now though.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Karen Hall:
But yeah, we try to go at least two to three times a year.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So I mean, I see you're constantly out in Deep Creek Lake, which is a lake in way, way, way western Maryland. Closer to West Virginia than anything. And you guys bought some property out in Montana. I know in Northern Montana, kind of by Glacier, right?

Karen Hall:
Yeah. We have 20 acres in Kalispell.

Tim Chermak:
Kalispell, yep. And I see you flying out there every now and then to enjoy that property you guys bought. Just everything you're doing with client gifts to helping clients renovate their houses, interior design, and you have a really cool VIP gifting strategy because you kind of have a special cadre of clients I know that you categorize as VIPs.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
And you give them several gifts throughout the year. And these aren't stupid trinkets where it's like pop by gifts that some agents do. You really give premium gifts to those VIP clients. And there's a lot of thought and effort that goes into that. We'll talk about that later, but when I look at your social media feed, you're constantly posting pictures of what you're up to, videos of what you're up to, whether it's, "Hey, I'm at an inspection." Or, "Hey, we're coordinating the listing video or photography, or negotiating offers, or helping a client move. Or, "Hey, I had to quick help a client mow their lawn before pictures."

Tim Chermak:
Whatever, right? You just seem super busy. And I know a common question you get is, "How do you pack everything into a day? What does your time management philosophy look like?" Because I know that the actual phrase time management, I've always had an issue with that because it's like, well, everyone has the same amount of hours in the day. It's not that somehow Karen finds a way to get more done in an hour. I think it's an issue of priorities, right? Of you schedule things in your day and like, this will get done. So I'd be interested to hear what is your philosophy on time management and how the hell do you fit all of that into a given week in the life of Karen Hall?

Karen Hall:
Yeah. I mean, that's the number one question. As soon as I see somebody in person, they follow me and they're like, "Oh my God, you make me exhausted. Following you makes me so tired." But it's awesome on the other side where I've had people straight up message me and they're like, "You know what, if I'm having a dragging day or I'm tired," they're like, "Well, you know what? Karen Hall has probably already solved world hunger, written a book, gone for a run, done this and this." And I love that it inspires people to do more stuff. I had somebody reach out to me. They wanted me to be a speaker about, I came up as somebody who's systematic. I'm like, "I don't feel very systematic in my minutes." I don't know. I think that's my superpower is mastery of minutes.

Karen Hall:
I've gotten very good at being super efficient. I don't waste a single minute in the day. I try to get up, hit the ground running and I just have a plan for what I have to accomplish. And I don't think it's a certain technique of time management. Like you said, I think I'm just hyper aware of exactly how many minutes something is going to take. And then I make sure that I use every single minute. And if I say I'm going to do something, I do it. There's been times with the videos, right? It's hard to fit in videos when you're doing 500 million things. But I do well, especially when there's a challenge, and I can't tell you, we hit seven businesses or something in an hour and a half. We're like, we're going to go here, here, here, here, here.

Karen Hall:
It's just, if you say you're going to get it done, you just figure out a way to do it. If you need to infuse accountability and that's probably what half of it is on social. I'm like, "I'm doing this today." I mean, the gifting program, same thing. I set it up so there's accountability. I don't allow myself options to not do the things I say I'm going to do. And then somehow just by nature I get in 500 million things. I was reading a book and I think one of their quotes was, "Not doing it is not a decision." You don't allow it to be a decision whether or not you're going to do something. It's, "Oh, I'm tired or I'm running late or whatever. So I'm just not going to go to CrossFit today." Well, it's not a decision you're allowed to make. It's just something that you're going to do in your day.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, it's always interesting to me how some realtors that I know for a fact are doing way less business than you are. They'll be like, "Oh, I don't have time for videos." It's like, "Well, if Karen Hall has time for videos with the other 49 things she does every day, surely you can go out and film some retargeting videos." It's worth repeating in case someone was just glossed over what you said before. You've been a Platform client now for nearly three years and you have never missed the monthly market update video.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Where you go film at a local business or whatever. You've never missed one the entire time you've been a Platform client. I mean, that's remarkable considering how busy you are on a day-to-day basis. So let's walk through a day in the life of Karen Hall. What time do you typically wake up in the morning Karen?

Karen Hall:
I usually get up around six and I always, always start with my two cups of coffee, and that's the only quiet time I have the whole entire day. I'm one of those annoying people that posts a motivational quote every morning. And if I don't, then people will message me and be like, "Where's my quote. Are you okay?"

Tim Chermak:
Karen, are you okay?

Karen Hall:
I know. They're like, "Are you all right?"

Tim Chermak:
Someone's taken Karen. There was no motivational meme in my feed today. Someone reach out, call 9-1-1.

Karen Hall:
Do you think I need my quotes. So that's the only time that it makes me frame my day with something more of gratitude or habits or something that's kind of in a personal development. It's just me scrolling through, coming up with a quote, being mindful and thinking about posting something that can maybe inspire or motivate somebody else while I drink my two cups of coffee.

Tim Chermak:
And is that an hour every morning or half an hour? Or how long does that?

Karen Hall:
I probably lolly gag it into like 30 minutes, 40 minutes.

Tim Chermak:
Okay. So, that's like 6:00 to 6:45? Let's call it.

Karen Hall:
Yep, yep. So then usually by up and then I'm just up and running of like, okay, time to get a shower, get ready, get out the door, take the dog, feed the dogs, let the dogs out. There's three dogs in my house right now.

Tim Chermak:
Are they all a German Shepherds?

Karen Hall:
No. We have a German shepherd and a potcake. And then my son has a Dutch Shepherd. So she's home right now from college.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Hall:
But you got to get them up and running, and then just head out. Every single day is something different. So it's not even really-

Tim Chermak:
You're starting your day. You're in the car, in the Tesla, driving out of the driveway at what? 7:15, 7:30?

Karen Hall:
Usually by 8:00. Usually by 8:00, by the time I get everybody up and running and I have all my stuff together, and it depends on where I'm going. Where am I going? Am I going to a client's house? Am I showing houses? Am I meeting a contractor? Am I going to the office? Every single day is something completely different. And so I just know, "Okay, I have these objectives that I've got to accomplished." And then I can usually fit them in between wherever I'm going.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Hall:
But then I usually finish up. I leave, I try to complete whatever I'm doing so that I can run out of the house around 3:45 to go to CrossFit. And then CrossFit is-

Tim Chermak:
So your CrossFit is at what? 4:00, 4:15?

Karen Hall:
CrossFit is 4:00 to 5:00.

Tim Chermak:
4:00 to 5:00.

Karen Hall:
And then I've literally been known to finish the workout, run in the restroom, change into a dress and run out and go to a client's house. But that's my one window is 4:00 to 5:00. I tell people I'm in meetings from 4:00 to 5:00.

Tim Chermak:
Yup, it's a meeting with CrossFit, I guess.

Karen Hall:
Exactly.

Tim Chermak:
So, do you eat breakfast? Do you eat lunch? What does your schedule look like? Are you intermittent fasting?

Karen Hall:
I'm struggling. I was doing better. But, so I track my macros usually. And then that's easier because I just have the same lunch and the same kind of dinner. I've been completely off the rails because I've been so busy this year. But literally breakfast every morning is, I could be curling my hair while I'm eating a bowl of yogurt. That's the same exact yogurt every single morning.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Hall:
And other than that people are trying to make sure I eat and drink water throughout the day. And then unfortunately I do a very bad job at, as soon as I'm done with CrossFit, I'm back on my computer. I eat whatever I got. Sometimes I'm eating and working and then I'm maybe typing up an offer, who knows. And I'm not very good at turning off my computer until maybe between 9:00, 9:30, 10:00. This season, this year, I've been working about 15 hours a day, seven days a week.

Tim Chermak:
Wow, wow.

Karen Hall:
Because, I just don't turn it off at night.

Tim Chermak:
So you're definitely in the mentality of the work hard, play hard camp?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I think you have to earn it. That's how I tell myself. If I'm going to have a break or I'm going to have a trip, if we're going to go to Montana, if we're going to do something, I'm usually kind of working when I go there. I'm not completely off at all, but I can do most things remote, but I feel I have to earn it. I have to cram in as much as I can in order to kind of dial back the pace a little bit.

Tim Chermak:
Sure. I mean, obviously when you're at the point where you're selling, probably this year you'll hit about $20 million plus in production and you don't have a big team.

Karen Hall:
No, I'm trying to build it, but that's been me. I've been averaging-

Tim Chermak:
That's you selling $20 million?

Karen Hall:
...six to 11 houses under contract at once is what I've been averaging. And I'm literally trying to hire to build a team, but it's just me right now.

Tim Chermak:
Do you have an assistant or what does the structure look like of the business?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I have a Chief of Staff, is what I call her. She kind of does everything. I throw everything at her and she'll literally be like, "Hey, your next meeting is this time. Hey, drink water. Hey, let me go get a lockbox off." So she kind of does everything for me. I've been moving so fast that she hasn't been able to keep up with me as well lately. And then we have another person at the company that kind of helps us with event planning and some of those is gift prep. So the two of them have really been taking on, our client appreciation program is like the heart and blood of everything. And even all my Platform clients get rolled into my VIP program. So the gifts are so high touch and highly curated that they've been taking on most of that workload, because I just haven't been here to do it.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And I think that's an important part of building a long-term business. And it's probably why you've seen the growth trajectory of your business grow so rapidly. It's not like you sold $7 million the year before Platform and then the next year you sold $8 million and then the next year you sold $9. It's like you went from 7 to 12, to 16, now to like 20 plus. And it's because you have new leads coming in, you're building your brand. But you're also turning those clients into kind of evangelists for you, because you have this VIP program. So, each client begets multiple other clients because when those people are that fired up about Karen Hall and your brand, they're going to tell their friends. So every client turns into multiple future clients. So tell me Karen, about the VIP program. I know that that's what you've called it. You have a VIP client program. And does every client become a VIP or how do that works? What is the strategy behind all this?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I mean, I have a group of people. I just recently finally just started to call them VIPs because before that I was like, "Oh, these are my peeps." And it was so loose. I even literally one year, or one Easter I had a T-shirt and said, "Have your peeps call my peeps." And that's what they got was peeps. So they got a text video, but I just kind of started, I realized, "Okay, on my Facebook I have a ton of people that follow me and never really interact." And then I realized that when they would, people started engaging and they referred themselves as a we. So they'd be like, "You have to tell us what happened. We want to know this."

Tim Chermak:
Sure, sure.

Karen Hall:
And so they've taken on their own fan base on just my Facebook page. And I was like, "Okay, let me give them a little more of a collective." But it's sometimes it's people, those people have been on there on the list. Some of them haven't for 15 years with me.

Tim Chermak:
Oh wow.

Karen Hall:
I have literally the same people. I have a lady, some clients are under contract now on their million dollar listing. I just got a referral fee because they bought a house that was 2.7 in Florida, $2.7 million. She was one of my very first clients, with a previous husband. And I helped them rent a condo. Then her buy a condo, sell a condo, found her mom a property. He bought this property and now they're selling this, but they stick with me forever. And some people on there on the list at the same time I've never even done a transaction with, but they're my biggest advocates. They'll go on social media and be like, "Oh my gosh, you have to call Karen." And so people will just randomly be like, "Oh, I saw you on Facebook. And so and so said you're great."

Tim Chermak:
So, I'm going to put you on the spot here. Can I join your VIP program? Can I become a VIP?

Karen Hall:
You want to get gifts every month?

Tim Chermak:
Yes, I would like to become an advocate of Karen Hall on Facebook. And I would like to be a VIP member.

Karen Hall:
I will make you a VIP. I'll put you on the gift list.

Tim Chermak:
Okay, I will text you all my information and I want gifts every month. That sounds terrific.

Karen Hall:
The gifts that just went out yesterday and are kind of crazy, over the top curated and I already had one texting this morning and she's like, "Thanks so much for the package." She's like, "My sister was visiting and she was completely impressed." She's like, "One day maybe we can be as cool as Karen." But they leave an impression and then they tell other people.

Tim Chermak:
So, what is an example of a gift? Let's dive into the specifics of what this VIP gifting program looks like. What is an example of some of the gifts you've given and what is your budget every month for the gifting strategy? Because obviously this is not cheap or free.

Karen Hall:
Yeah. The budget's gotten a little bit out of hand, but it was on purpose. I think people don't look at it the right way necessarily. For example, the ones that we sent out yesterday, it was about $450 for the shipping alone, but that was 55 boxes. And I know value of time, that would take me two drivers and two passengers over a two day period to deliver them. And every single time I do this, I get at least one client. Every single time I get at least one deal out of it. So for me, I'm like $400 just on the shipping alone. Okay, that's worth it. And then the gifts, I mean they probably do end up, it wouldn't surprise me if the components alone are probably $20 to $30. Like one time we made Burlap wreaths, if you tried to buy those on Etsy, they're about $75 a piece.

Karen Hall:
And instead I turned my conference room into a sweat shop and put my parents to work for three days with masks on. But the one, like a couple months ago we made our own scents for a room spray and a candle, tied it in with cherry blossoms. It was a custom package box. And I can't tell you how many people contacted me and were like, "I have Googled everywhere. It's not on Amazon. Where do I buy more of these freaking candles and room sprays?" Two people yesterday responded. And like, "I need a candle because I didn't get one. And Karen mailed those out two months ago." So you just become so top of mind with something that they can't get anywhere else. And it's just a good strategy.

Tim Chermak:

So you are sending a gift every month that's something like a premium candle or a wreath or what are some other examples of the specific gifts that you've given?

Karen Hall:
The ones that they're getting today is actually, and I always tell people to tie it back to your brand. Tie it to what you're known for. So the one is super hyper. So we're known for cars. I have a fair fleet of vehicles and people know them by name and they ask me what car I brought and all this kind of stuff. So we designed, custom coffee is another thing I'm known for. So we got two different blends that we made of coffee. We actually put them in tins that are more like an automotive kind of theme in a custom box. And then we made custom labels that have even a rendering of one of my two different cars. So one's got the Defender and one's got the Maserati. And so as a box that has two kind of clean oil rags and a spoon and two tins of coffee. And then that was kind of a big deal because I wanted to include a little note that was kind of a midyear celebration note of like, "Hey, this year's been awesome. You guys are fueling my business. I'm so excited."

Karen Hall:
We get to have our big ... We have our huge annual client event next month. That's a barbecue and crab feast. And so I wanted this one to be a little bigger because it includes the invitation and stuff like that.

Tim Chermak:
Am I invited since I'm a VIP?

Karen Hall:
That's literally what people are getting today is a very fancy box that has graphics, it's got Le Mans. It's got all this stuff on it and coffee tins in it.

Tim Chermak:
Am I invited to that since I'm now a VIP?

Karen Hall:
Do you want to come to Virginia? It's a barbecue and crabs.

Tim Chermak:
As of like five, 10 minutes ago, I became a VIP. So am I going to get an invite for that?

Karen Hall:
I can text you an invite for that. And then I have extra coffee.

Tim Chermak:
What does the economic structure of this look like? Because you're probably spending $20 a month or so on the actual gift itself, plus another $10 per gift on shipping. So I mean really every month it's about $30 per person in the VIP group. And you said as of right now there's about 75 VIPs you have, so actually 76 counting me now.

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I was running at a top 50 every year, but then I've bumped it up a little by little, so now I'm about at 75.

Tim Chermak:
And then, so I'm just doing quick math here, 75 times about 30 bucks a month. You're spending several thousand dollars a month.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
On the VIP program. But the important part is you said, "Hey, I'm spending, let's just call it about $2,000 a month on this VIP program." But every time you do it without fail, you get a fresh referral from that group every month. And that's probably making you, 10, 15, $20,000 of a commission there. So it's actually very wise from a marketing perspective. You're not just throwing this money out there, blindly hoping that at some point in the distant future you get rewarded for it. You see a very clear return on investment from this VIP program. So, what qualifies someone to be a VIP? Is it just everyone you've ever worked with ever? Or is it only clients that you build a deeper relationship with, or kind of what's your process for deciding who becomes a VIP?

Karen Hall:
Yeah. It's literally anybody that you think is going to be likely to refer you business or repeat business with you. And not even immediately, I put some of these people on for short term. And like I said, some of these people I've never even had a transaction. I tried to help them with a rental 15 years ago and I didn't, but again, this area is unique because they're so transient. So they come back.

Tim Chermak:
Sure. Sure.

Karen Hall:
So I've got some of these that are getting gifts and they're not even here anymore, but they're connected to people and they'll post on their social media now and say, "Oh my gosh, if you're going to this region, Karen is the only realtor you have to use." But it's just such a ripple effect that you don't even know.

Karen Hall:
It's kind of like the fuzzy ROI that you guys talk about. It's the same thing with the gifting program. One of my clients, she's very close with a realtor that's in my marketplace and that realtor's awesome, I like her. But I had a conversation she's like, "Ugh, every time she gets a gift, she sends me pictures of the gift that you sent her and is like, 'You should do this.'"

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Karen Hall:
And I'm the one with her business. So it does, it sets you apart from what you're doing. But I mean, the very first, when we used to do the market update videos, I would do a gift or a giveaway. And the very first one I ever did with the market update and gave him a gift. They bought a house last year for 488,000. I was set up, I was going to do property management and keep him and they was going to come back. Instead I just sold it for 565 this year.

Tim Chermak:
Okay.

Karen Hall:
Well, that was from one little gift. And he wasn't even on the client appreciation the VIP program, before that.

Tim Chermak:
Years ago.

Karen Hall:
He's only on there for a year, but I mean, boom, that's two transactions just like that. Because I turned him into a VIP. But is there anybody who I get it, because there's some people I'm working with right now, to be honest that I won't necessarily put on the VIP. So it's not a recent thing. It's just, do I click with them? Do I feel I have a lot in common with them? Do I feel like there's an opportunity for a relationship there?

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, so it's basically people that you actually end up developing sort of a friendship or a relationship with.

Karen Hall:
Yep.

Tim Chermak:
Have you ever had people ... Because I'm sure, for all the realtors listening to this podcast right now, I bet a fear they have is like, "Oh, that sounds good. But what about, what if people start commenting on Facebook, 'Why am I not in the VIP group,' if they were recent client?" Has that happened or how do you handle that?

Karen Hall:
I know that's a big concern because I had to tiptoe around that for a while. And the one today I felt a little bit concerned because it was such a over the top gift that I could only do 60 of them. So I just posted on my thing and I'll be like, "Hey, unfortunately this one was so limited. I had to do limited edition. I could only do limited quantities." Because these people know if they're my VIPs, I set the expectation at the beginning of the year for the ones that are regulars. They know that they're one of the VIPs. And so it's always a little awkward because I'll post that on. They'll watch when I'm doing deliveries and they're like, "Hey, are you headed to me next?" They watch this like a hawk.

Karen Hall:
But it was just, a lot of people that I'd never done a deal with, they'd start engaging with me a lot on social. They were super supportive. And so I was like, "Let me just add them on there." And some people were out of the area and would ask, "Hey, well can I get one too?" Well then they sent me a referral. So I'd be like, "Oh, well you sent me this referral. She's amazing. You're totally a VIP now."

Tim Chermak:
So it almost feels like a sense of meritocracy where they have to earn being a VIP. It's not just like, "Hey, everyone who's ever bought or sold a house with Karen Hall becomes VIP." So it's not really the same thing as a client appreciation group or a private client group. These are like, it's a true VIP group.

Karen Hall:
Yeah, yeah. And I don't know. I think if you word things carefully and you treat things delicately and you're not disparaging and you don't like, these people will start, I won't talk about the gifts and then other people will start posting them as they get them and they'll tag them on there. But it seems like, I think if you're just super careful about the ones that you're picking, then people know, it's like you said, you give a whole vision to what this VIP community is about. And then people kind of know deep down if they do or don't belong in the community, you know what I mean?

Tim Chermak:
What do you typically do for your annual client appreciation events? I know that you said you're doing a big, this year's a big, like a barbecue, but I'm sure as people are listening to this podcast and they're thinking, "Holy shit, she spends two grand a month just on client gifts every single month." It's not like an annual thing. It's every month you're spending a couple thousand dollars on gifts for your VIP group. "What do her client appreciation events look like? Is she renting out an entire football stadium box suites?" I mean, what do those events look like and how do you foster that culture, I guess in the VIP group to where they actually become fans of you?

Tim Chermak:
Because this is an interesting marketing psychology question. It's like, you can send out the coolest gifts in the world and they can be really expensive. But if there's not an actual sense of culture of like, "We actually deep down really like working with Karen Hall and she seems really cool." You could send people jewelry from Tiffany, and it's not necessarily going to mean they're going to start sending a bunch of referrals to you if they actually don't like you and they feel a part of this cool club. So how have you fostered or designed that sense of culture to where it actually feels like an exclusive club, I guess that people are proud to be a part of?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I think there's so much psychology in it where I've had people in the past that were like, "You didn't have to bring me pumpkin bread. I send you referrals because you're good." And they were almost offended. Because that's the default setting, right? Is like, "Oh, well realtors, well, this realtor sent me this thing just because she wants business." But I think because they're part of this community, everything is led with gratitude. They know that I appreciate them and their business and then, any little mailers or anything, I'm like, "Hey, I appreciate you sending me people that are cool like you." My goal is to help as many people as possible. And then everything reminding them of my brand, they just know that I'm authentic. And I'm like, if you're known for being authentic and these videos reinforce it, right?

Karen Hall:
They feel like they know the real me, then they don't question when you're giving them a gift and you're like, "I really appreciate you. Thanks so much." Then it's not the, "Oh, she did this because she has ulterior motives." And I think then they feel it's just an authentic thing if people want to be a part of it. But yeah, I think it's just all in the messaging and it's all in the gifts. But the big event, we started out with originally, because one year somebody was like, "Oh, I want to have a barbecue." And we get all behind that. Well now we do, everything we do it's kind of, I think we try to do high touch so it's high impression, so then people have this big experience.

Karen Hall:
And we've been doing the, it's called a hogs and claws. We've been doing it every year for probably this may be our fifth year. Last year we had to modify it obviously. But we rent out a park, a huge pavilion at a park. We do have a live musician. We have a face painter. We have one of these food trucks that's like ice cream and cookies and it's us doing the barbecue. So I think that's a big difference. We have like a 12 foot tow behind smoker. And we have live blue crabs brought in from the water and then we cook them there. And so-

Tim Chermak:
Oh wow.

Karen Hall:
A lot of it's experiential. People taking pictures with the crabs, because they've never seen live blue crabs and they're posing them with old bay cans and stuff. And then the fact that the smoker is there and it's pumping out smoke. So many people just come over to the smoker and they're like, "Oh, did you do this? Did you do that? Well, what did you do next?" And it's just the best barbecue they could get absolutely anywhere. And so it's not, that's a little thing, but it's huge. It's not that we just catered out from Mission Barbecue and had some trays brought in. They feel special at every touch because it's so well thought out.

Tim Chermak:
You're actually giving them a story to tell their friends. And so if they're going to post a picture on social media, they'll probably actually write a paragraph with the picture, whether it's Instagram, Facebook, whatever, they'll write a quick paragraph about like, "It was so cool. They actually brought fresh blue crabs here and the barbecue was here." And it is this story that you're giving them that they can tell their friends that they're kind of a member of this exclusive club that they got to attend this. Where being a client of Karen Hall is almost like a social status, right? It's something they're proud to tell their friends. "I know Karen Hall, I work with her, where you should almost feel lucky that Karen works with you," right?

Karen Hall:
Yeah. They post so many, one's been posting her memories over the last week because we've had it different years and different days. So it pop up as her memory and she shares it on her Facebook page. Like, "This was from three years ago, this was from two years ago." And at this point, because my niche is so targeted because it's military clients. So at this point some of them know each other, they've met and they're like, "Hey, oh you were there? Well, I was there." And so it just further deepens that connections because they have something in common for the most part, because 95 at least percent of my clients are military.

Tim Chermak:
Oh wow. Okay.

Karen Hall:
So that's to give them to be able to come together and be like, wait, I know. And again, this is all referral. So half the time they sent me this person and that person and this person. So then they want to all come together. I think this year's going to be, at one point we had close to 500 people attending this event. I think-

Tim Chermak:
Damn, you say 500?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I think, and then we dialed it down a little bit, so for the quality. I think then we were the last one it was around 350. I don't know. We might be 250 this year. I don't know.

Tim Chermak:
I mean, that's still,

Karen Hall:
I'm trying to make it a lot more quality.

Tim Chermak:
That's still massive. I think most realtors would be thrilled if they could get 50 people to show up to their client appreciation events. I mean, that's insane.

Karen Hall:
You should see us at Restaurant Depot, carts and carts of pork butts and very long receipts.

Tim Chermak:
Wow.

Karen Hall:
And then in December we do a community event with Santa. So we have legit the most amazing Santa ever. And he comes here and we just open up the place for the community and we're like, "Come hang out and have a moment with Santa." So it's not just pictures then like the mall, they get to come here. They literally get to make hot cocoa and cookies. And Santa's like, "Oh, did you get this last year? I remember you asked for this." And so they have a whole experience instead of just, "Oh, I took my picture with Santa at the mall." So we try to go experiential. And none of it, I know it also scares people when you tell people how much money I'm spending. I didn't do that my entire career. I've been doing this for 18 years.

Tim Chermak:
It's scaled as your business has scaled.

Karen Hall:
Yeah, exactly. And some of it, I mean, for St. Patrick's Day, for example, super cheap. I do lottery scratchers, which you're not supposed to technically mail, but I mail lottery scratchers and everyone reaches out to me. They're like, "I won a dollar." It just gives you an excuse to have a conversation with somebody, that's all it is.

Tim Chermak:
Exactly. It's just keeping you top of mind in a creative way.

Karen Hall:
Excuses for conversations. That's all we're lacking is because people don't want to reach out because they don't have a reason to call because they feel they're bothering or they're needy. And that's what this does. It just creates conversations. But it doesn't have to be expensive. It doesn't have to be thousands. It could be a handwritten note on a paper note card that happens to have flower seeds embedded in it and you can plant it and you grow it into something, just high thought, high authenticity.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, just something that gives you an excuse to regularly stay in contact with your database.

Karen Hall:
Exactly. But every single one, "Oh we got the candles. Oh, by the way, our friend's moving. Oh Hey, thank you so much for this gift I got last month, I forgot to say thank you. Let me introduce you. My buddy's going to be calling you. He's buying a house. He's selling a house," Every single time. Every event has at least two people that walk up to me. It was the last person I ever would have thought of. And they're like, "Hey, by the way, we're thinking about selling and we want to buy a house and we want to sell ours." And I'm like, "You just bought a year and a half ago." It's the last person I expected that every single time.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. So I mean, when you look at the actual numbers, because I know a lot of realtors listening are like, "Okay, that sounds super cool, but I'm not going to spend $50,000 on an event. Or even $10,000 on an event." It's like, well, let's say you did spend five grand on an event or $10,000. If that creates an immediate, essentially 20 or 30,000 or 40,000 in potential referrals and commission checks, plus all the long-term goodwill that you're generating with your brand, that's a huge part of the reason you've grown your business from 7 million to now this year you'll do over 20 million is because you're always making those relational investments.

Tim Chermak:
And that's again, that's in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the country. I want to keep repeating that, that a lot of people think, "Well yeah, maybe that would work in a less sophisticated area. But everyone knows if you're sending out gifts or if you're doing client appreciation events, everyone knows you're just doing it because you're trying to get more referrals." It's like, but humans are humans.

Karen Hall:
I look, yeah. I look at the people that are in smaller markets and I'm like, well yeah, Heather Mutz can go in and dominate her one little town in Texas because everybody, it's easy. Everybody knows everybody at the baseball practice or whatever. And I'm like, everybody here knows a realtor. My clients get upset because they refer people to me all the time. And then they're like, "Did that person reach out?" And I was like, "No they didn't." I know it's upsetting, but they're like, "I don't understand." I'm like because everybody knows 10 realtors and they all think they're exactly the same. So it's really hard to try to set yourself apart.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, I mean if-

Karen Hall:
They're like people, but dollars of people are spending here instead I think because it's so competitive. How many realtors are spending thousands and thousands dollars on things like Zillow or Boomtown or this and that? What do you do with that? You get a list and you try it for a few months and then you don't, you're like, "Oh, that didn't work." And then you bounce. People don't stay with that usually for three years in my experience.

Tim Chermak:
Exactly.

Karen Hall:
But what are you spending your money on? I looked at realtor.com leads or something like that. And the prices were, I was like, "You want me to pay this much for the small percentage that I might be able to convert this one person?" It was like, "No." I looked at my Platform stuff and since I started I've gotten 6.2 million impressions on my account.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome.

Karen Hall:
6.2 million impressions, and three second video plays. I know lot. But that was 1.2 million.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah.

Karen Hall:
Like, what?

Tim Chermak:
And more impressive is the end result that your business has grown to 20 million. Because you can have all the impressions in the world, who cares about that If it's not actually translating into business growth, but the proof is that it's actually translating into business growth in one of the most competitive markets in the country. And I think a lot of agents will see what someone like you is doing for your brand building and VIP group and these events and how much you spend on ads and everything. And they're like, "Well, I would never want to spend that amount of money." It's like, "Well yeah, but Karen is probably going to make 500,000 in GCI this year," six or 700,000 something like that is probably what you'll end up at this year.

Tim Chermak:
And so it makes sense that you're spending so much money on marketing, because who in the right mind thinks that someone out there is entitled to make half a million dollars a year without taking any risk to get there?

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
I think some realtors sometimes need a wake up call or a reminder that, if you're doing this well, you get paid a lot more than even doctors or lawyers do. And so if you think that you should be able to make an easy $500,000 a year and you shouldn't have to spend a lot of money on marketing to get to that point, you're delusional.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Of course you have to make serious investments, like the VIP investment like that, every year you're probably spending $25,000 on every year.

Karen Hall:
Yep.

Tim Chermak:
You're probably spending, I bet another $30,000 almost on your Platform Marketing strategy, once you factor in ad spend and everything you're doing with that. And so just those two things alone you're spending over $50,000 a year on. But it's like, well, if you run the numbers and you realize like, "Yeah okay. Karen spends $50,000 a year on marketing, but she's also bringing in 500, 600,000." It puts that into perspective real quick of, "Oh, that's actually a pretty good return on investment." That's a 10 to one ratio on marketing budget versus your income. So it's like, "That actually makes a lot of sense."

Karen Hall:
I think people just don't even ... I mean, it's all mindset. Because I've met with agents in the past and they're like, "Oh, I'm so tired. I'm helping these renters. And the money's just not in it." And I'm like, "How much do you spend? Are you buying leads from this company?" And I'm like, "So this is a free audition." I was like, "You're working with a renter." You're paying leads, paying to buy leads for something. And then trying to convince these people that you're a good fit and you're a value when they think that you just are going to open a door. Or you help someone who's eternally grateful and you should do that for free, but you're getting paid $200. It's a $200 paid audition. That's what it is. And they're like, "Oh." But it's just reframing everything.

Karen Hall:
And like you said, even the videos, it's not even just clients, you get referrals and it's people that aren't ... I always tell people the ones who are not commenting and engaging on your Facebook page are usually the ones that are paying the closest attention. Like the ducks in a row video was huge for me where you define what's high performing or this and that. It's all different definitions. Is it engagement? Did you get a piece of business out of it? You can define performing differently. But I had just done the ducks in a row video. And then I went to a event at Virginia realtors at the state level. I had at least six people that came up to me during a reception and were like, "Oh my gosh, the ducks in a row video."

Karen Hall:
And so then you're top of mind with people that are going to refer you business also. Because they see you doing something different. It's not something they were comfortable doing, but it just becomes part of your brand. But that ducks in, I mean, so many people are talking about the ducks and I'm like, "Okay, guess that was attention grabbing."

Tim Chermak:
So what are some of the other videos that you've done, Karen, that people have referenced or that after you put out this retargeting ad or that video that people were actually stopping you in real life and saying, "Oh, I love that video." Or, "Hey, I saw that video." What have been maybe your top two or three best ads that you've run using the Platform strategy?

Karen Hall:
So it's funny because for me I'm so heavy into branding. People don't even realize that marketing and branding are totally different things, it kind of shocks me. But I'm like, "Branding is decided by other people that follow you. They decide what." And I met with a realtor last week in my market that wasn't in my market and she's like, "Yeah, I know you for your dogs and your cars and your CrossFit and your macros. I started doing macros because you do macros and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." All of that is commuted through all the videos. And so I tried to sprinkle that through, but it gives you other ways to think about things. I looked at the highest viewed is engaged video and it was about 70,000 people.

Karen Hall:
And that was because I went to, it was a collaboration where I found a guy who does garage floors and makeovers. And I'm like, "Hey, tell you what, let me help you. I could promote a special for father's day. We'll do my garage as a makeover kind of thing." And it was a before and after and promoted his business. And I had 70 something thousand views on that, which is kind of crazy.

Tim Chermak:
Wow.

Karen Hall:
And then I have a few that people kind of targeted. One was super authentic talking about a military family and how they kind of are displaced a little bit. And just a moment, it's like capturing moments and making those into videos. And they're like you said, they're stories and they're authentic. And that one had 30,000 engagements with it as well. But I think it's when people see me, they reference things that I posted two, three months ago. And I'm like, "How do you even remember this stuff?" They remember this stuff and I don't. And they're like, "Oh, I meant to ask you this question. I saw that you went here, that you did that. Well, let me ask you about that." But it's more just general impressions of who you are and they get you.

Tim Chermak:
How much are you typically spending every month, Karen, on the actual ads? Like the actual Facebook advertising budget?

Karen Hall:
I can't remember what my current budget is right now. I think we're at 2,500 right now. During COVID when COVID hit, I listen to you guys and I'm like, "Whatever Tim says, that's what I do." And you're like, "The costs are down." And I'm like, "No-brainer. Everyone is on Facebook right now. They're locked down and they're home." I think at one point we were up to what, 10K a month or something.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome. Wow.

Karen Hall:
We threw some major number at it, but I think my retargeting audience had grown to some giant number at the time. But I was like, "Whatever you guys say do, that's what I do."

Tim Chermak:
And it's not a coincidence that since then you made that investment that your business has now essentially doubled.

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
That's not a coincidence that, those two things are not unrelated.

Karen Hall:
You're like, if you double down right now and I think we tripled or quadrupled down or something for a period of three or four months. And then now I think Lee had emailed me last night. There's 250 people that she's keeping an eye on as far as warm conversations. And we're going to try to do another touch to them, but she just emailed me that last night. Because those people are all like, "Oh, I'm thinking in a year. Oh." And some of them will shock you. And they say that they're not moving anytime soon. But if you have a conversation with them and you have a solution, I had one that was like, "Oh yeah, I'm in a lease for six more months." Well, I managed to get her out and she was under contract within two months or like a month or something.

Tim Chermak:
Wow. Yep.

Karen Hall:
So if you just pair up the skills and what you guys say to do and you get your message out there, that's what it all is, right? That's the not coincidence part.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. I mean, I just think there's something to be said about having the courage to like, "Hey, I'm going to spend big and I'm going to invest big in my marketing because I know it's going to work out in the long term." That's why your business has grown the way it has. I mean, you've essentially tripled your business since you started with Platform. It's not because you're timid or weak or like, "Well, I'm just waiting for leads to call me." I guess I'll just sit back and wait for the business to come. It's like, "No, you're going out. You're filming videos. You're doing the photo retargeting ads when it's a photo. And you're investing in client appreciation events in the VIP group." It's like, "Well, it's really not surprising that your business has grown."

Karen Hall:
It all fits together. But what you just said is I'm trusting. I'm not trusting in my marketing. I have comments in my branding, but I have full trust in Platform. I tell people all the time, there is no other company that I would even trust to manage it on a low budget. The only reasons ... And I learned pretty early on, because I tried doing my own little Facebook ads and nothing ever seemed to work. And you think you know what you're doing, and you don't. And that's not even talking about the back end of like, "How is this coded? How is this targeted? Like beware. We just learned that this is a bad thing. Don't include images of beer or bar in it anymore." You guys stay on top of all that stuff. But I figured out really quickly that whatever you say to do, it just works because that's what you're experts at.

Karen Hall:
But you're forward thinkers. You stay on top of it. There's no way. But that's what I have the trust in. It's not, there's no other company. I'm like, I see people trying to run ads and I'm like, "What are you doing? You're wasting your money." Or I get pinged sometimes because people like, somebody messaged me over the last month. He's like, "This guy ripped your post off. I saw him posting and then another realtor. And is he even in that? What is he doing? How dare he?" I'm like, "It's fine. Calm down. It'll be okay." But it speaks to what you guys know in your stuff. But a 100% like no exaggeration. That's what I trust in. I trust that you know what you're doing way more than I do and you're paying attention to it. And that's why I'm like, "Okay, I'm all in, whatever you say, that's what I'm doing."

Tim Chermak:
Karen-

Karen Hall:
And it works, obviously.

Tim Chermak:
Karen, what has your experience been like with attending the actual in-person Platform Masterminds? Because I know you've been to a couple now. How important are in-person events to you and attending those masterminds?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, I love it because it's kind of cool. Because you refer to as the Plat fam and the people that you've hand picked or that have gravitated towards this and find the value in it, they're so collaborative. And I think it's only in-person when you have those opportunities where you're like, "Oh my gosh, this person is amazing." Because it's like I always say, "Don't be the smartest person in the room." And there's so many opportunities, even in your small groups and when you're local. I'm one of those people that people are always coming up and asking questions to. So asking questions of, and I can go to an event like this and you're like, "I didn't even know the Remys. Oh my gosh, I want to connect with the Remys."

Karen Hall:
They're like, "Heather, you hear people's stories and then you go up to people in a break and I had people lined up asking me this or that. Are you to go out to lunches?" You cannot get the ... You don't even know that these people exist. And they're in other markets and they're so eager to learn and collaborate or they'll message me all the time, they're like, "Hey, can we hop on a quick call? I have a question about this." And it's not even Platform-related stuff. It's like, "How do you manage your time?" Or like, "How do I hire an assistant?" So it's you don't get those unless you go in-person. And I always, you guys bring in great speakers or people to have different messages. It makes you think, you get a takeaway of some sort. But it really is hearing the other member's strategies and what's working and isn't. And I think it forces you to debunk some of your excuses.

Karen Hall:
My very first event they're like, "You should come, you should come." I'm like, "I don't know if it's for me, whatever." And then you sit there and you're like, "Okay, I have no excuses. Why am I not doing this?" So I think that's the only way you can force yourself to have the reality and of, if other people are doing this and I'm just so competitive, you guys will throw down a challenge and you're like, "Who's going to film this?" And it was me and Bill were like, I was like, "No, he cheated! I went into the movie theater because I was waiting when they opened the door and that wasn't even movie popcorn!" So it really does Bill as a family, but it pushes you-

Tim Chermak:

Bill's video doesn't count! It's not even movie theater popcorn!

Karen Hall:
I was like, "He did not get that from a movie theater, because I went once and they weren't open yet." And then I was waiting when they opened the door and that's the last one we did. We left, we did others when we came back-

Tim Chermak:
You're like-

Karen Hall:
... and I was like-

Tim Chermak:
... disqualify him.

Karen Hall:
I was like, "That's not fair." But it really does it. There's been times even I was so close to not filming one of my market updates because I was busy. I was slammed. The business that I wanted to go to didn't cooperate or they didn't want me there. They were being difficult, whatever. And I think Emily said, "I'm just saying, this is the only one you haven't done." I was like, "Ah." So he force 15 minutes of like, "Get in the car. We're going over here." And we filmed it and I sent it over to her.

Tim Chermak:
Nice.

Karen Hall:
That's part of the group. But all those people I met was just helping them out, being in an event. I didn't know Bill, I didn't know Neil, I didn't know all these people, but I was like, "Hey, you need help. Let me help you with that." And now we're all connected.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, and the thing is, other people have helped you too. Because I'm sure you had questions about Platform. Or at your very first Platform Mastermind, I bet you went there looking to learn from other people?

Karen Hall:
Oh, a 100%. And I immediately was like, "Who are these people? What are they doing? What are their stories?" And it's not even big things. You are adding those people to your circle now of people that you can learn and grow and contribute with. But it's micro things like little takeaways. "Oh, I text videoed these people or something, and that worked for me. Or Joe is managing how she was managing her leads or working with a team member." There's always something and we're all moving at such a trajectory of growth that I think it's a unique group to be a part of, because everyone is growing and scaling so quickly because of what you guys provide that we all have kind of similar growing pains and we can feed off of each other. And I think that's an ad benefit that I didn't even realize until now.

Tim Chermak:
So let me totally change the topic here and ask you, what was the motivation or how did you decide to buy 20 acres of land way out in Kalispell, Montana? Because that's just totally randomly. You're this top realtor in the suburbs of DC and then you announced one day on Facebook, "Hey, I just bought a bunch of land in Montana." What was the story that led up to that?

Karen Hall:
So I had always wanted to go to that area and I just hadn't, like I've never even been to that area. I actually have a couple of clients and there's a potential for me to help more people like that. But if you're a high producing, like high-time person that's ... So anyway, I had a client and they're like, "I'm looking at another property I want to buy in this area." So instead they're able to send me out to an area and I'm not doing real estate business. I found an amazing local realtor in Kalispell. He was phenomenal. And I was like, "Here's what we're looking for." And then it took my time and because I've got the expertise and so I went out to Montana and I looked at the properties and was like, "No, yes, no, yes, no."

Karen Hall:
And so I was looking for a client and making advice and it's the most genius service ever because people are always asking me, "Well, is there a Karen in Florida? Is there a Karen in Texas?" And I was like, "No, but if you have the time and the resources and my time is better used, you can send me." So that's what I was looking for. And then I came across this property. I was like, "Whatever, okay, we're going to check up here. I'm not going to like it, it's remote." And I was like, "Okay, if I was going to have property in Montana and everyone's flocking there right now, if I was going to buy property, I was so specific where I wanted to be. On the top of a mountain in this city, overlooking a lake, looking across the mountains in this specific lake." And then I walked up and I was like, "I've never seen such an amazing piece of property in my entire life." And so lo and behold, I came back and it was almost like a foster fail with a dog.

Karen Hall:
Like that one didn't work for my client anyway. But I came back and I was like, "Oh, I really like this property." And I was like, "Oh, it's the winter, we're going into winter. It'll be there. It'll be no problem." And then the realtor called was like, "Somebody made it out there in their car. I don't know how they did it, but they're putting in an offer." And I was like, "Gee." And so I just found a way, pulled the trigger and it's like 20 acres on literally on the top of that mountain.

Tim Chermak:
That's awesome. So what does property sell for out there?

Karen Hall:
Oh my gosh. It's gone through the roof because that we got a good deal because it's kind of an off the grid property.

Tim Chermak:
So there's not water and electric out there?

Karen Hall:
Yeah, exactly. So it's got a cabin and all this kind of stuff. But that was part of the question to my realtor there, my realtor contact, I was like, "Okay, what if I waited out? What kind of thing?" He's like, "That land doesn't exist, number one. If it did, it would probably already have a house on, it would be $2 million, $3 million." But they're like all those right around Ashley Lake area, a million. It's crazy out there the prices. I mean, obviously I've hung out in like Kalispell, Whitefish, but they're million dollar properties and they're climbing like Deep Creek Lake.

Tim Chermak:
Sure.

Karen Hall:
I didn't want to get priced out. And I wanted to own that piece of earth for later.

Tim Chermak:
Right on. So if you were moving to Kalispell, let me ask you a hypothetical question that I think gets at the core of what has made you successful with your branding, with your marketing. Let's say that you were going to pack up, leave the DC area and actually move to Kalispell and you were going to kind of recreate your real estate career there from scratch. You're starting from nothing, right? You don't necessarily know a ton of people there. You don't have friends or family who live there. So if your business is going to work, it's going to be because your marketing was successful enough to start getting you leads and building a brand. So if you had to start from scratch, let's say moving to rural Montana, what would you do in Kalispell to build a brand there?

Karen Hall:
It's so funny that you said that because it's contrasting your intro where I'm like, "Oh small towns. It's easier to become known then like a big city here." And I do think in a way, because you go places and you run into everybody. We go into the post office and somebody were like, "Did I hear you just moved here?" And they're so friendly. And I think that's why something like Platform. I would just be all in on Platform. I would be going to the local businesses. I would be forming partnerships with them. How can I promote your local business? I want to put you on a video. There's actually a realtor that's in that area and I messaged him. And I was like, "You're doing a great job, but you should really look into Platform." But I would just go all in and dump a crud ton into a budget and hit every local place and every local spot and interview locals and just become known as the person. Because I've already know some that are doing videos, but you guys do it different, so.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, there's not really a-

Karen Hall:
That would be my number one thing.

Tim Chermak:
There's not really a strategy behind it per se. Some people just do videos and they cross their fingers and hope people see them.

Karen Hall:
And some of them are a little salty about non-locals, so.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. Right, right, right. But that's okay.

Karen Hall:
I feel like all the places. I was already tempted.

Tim Chermak:
But that's okay. Because as long as you're not from California, they don't hate you.

Karen Hall:
Exactly. I was super tempted to actually already roll. I was like, "How could I leverage this and go in and say, 'Well, if you're coming to the area to visit, let me do a video and run it.'" Because that's kind of what I did with Deep Creek Lake. People here in Northern Virginia think of me as a help desk and an expert on Deep Creek Lake. They reach out to me for anything. "I'm going to DCL. What do you know about the houses? I want to buy a house there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And so you just find somebody local and collab with them. Like Justin Liller and I had done one where, "Hey, Justin, what do people love about a letter coming from this area? And what are your favorite things about this area?" And that collab I think got 45,000 views or something.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. And I know that for those listening, Karen, we did a podcast episode earlier on the Platform Marketing Show with Justin Liller, who is the Platform agent in the Deep Creek Lake area. And his business is going incredibly well because of all the same strategies that you are using.

Karen Hall:
I go to a marketplace where I know there's a Platform agent and I'm visiting. I actually go to their page and I look at what places that they've featured and that's how I figure out where to go.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, yeah. I honestly have done the same thing on vacations with Bella. Like when we're going around the country on a road trip or whatever, if we're driving through a town that we know has an agent there, if we maybe don't even have time to stop and meet with them, but we're just stopping to grab a quick lunch or coffee or something, we'll always try to find, "Hey, where have they filmed their market updates at?" So at least we feel we know the place that we're going to.

Karen Hall:
A 100%.

Tim Chermak:
So it's like I have this network of small businesses I want to hit up around the country because it's businesses I've seen on people's retargeting videos. If I ever drive through Texas again, I know Heather has featured Hondough Pizza in multiple of her videos. It's like, "Well, I want to go to Hondough's or I want to go to Hondough Pizza."

Karen Hall:
Exactly.

Tim Chermak:
And there's this cool restaurant, Juliana's I think it's called, somewhere in Castroville, Texas that I want to check out, because it looks cool. And there's just tons of places that Platform agents have featured that it's almost like, "Cool. This is my bucket list of American small businesses I'll have to visit at some point." So Karen, this is the last question I want to ask you, because you're now nearly three years into Platform and like you said, it's like, "Hey, it was an overnight success that took 12 months."

Karen Hall:
Yeah.

Tim Chermak:
Because you didn't get crazy results your first 90 days or your first six months.

Karen Hall:
Yeah. No.

Tim Chermak:
What would you tell someone who's listening to this podcast right now and they're in kind of that trough. They're in the period of time where maybe they're five months into Platform or eight months in whatever it is. And they've gotten a little bit of results, but it's not life changing yet. And they're starting to get frustrated. They're starting to think like, "Why am I seeing all these success stories of people at the mastermind or people in the Facebook group? Why does it seem like everyone else is successful, but me? What am I doing wrong?" What would you say to that person who's in that emotional spot right now where they're just starting to feel kind of frustrated?

Karen Hall:
Yeah. I mean, my two soundbites are, one of them is, you get out what you put into something. So my brutally honest question is, "Are you doing the work? Are you creating the content? Are you doing what you've been told to do? Are you actually doing what you're supposed to be doing to generate the potential for results?" Because you've got to be doing that early on. You can't wait six months and be like, "Whoa, I put out an ad once a month and it didn't work." The more you put into it is the more you're going to get out of it. So you have to look at that personal responsibility aspect of, "Are you doing what you should be doing?" Number one.

Karen Hall:
But two, if you are, keep in mind that you gravitated towards this program because it was the high hanging fruit. You didn't buy into this because you were expecting, hopefully you didn't have wrong expectations of, "Oh, I'm going to go do this and then I'm going to have somebody email me right now that they're going to go buy a house this weekend." There's plenty of those places out there. They're called leads. And they may or may not be good. And they're not going to value you as a realtor. As a professional, as a human being they don't value you. They just want you to call and open a door. I know, because I happened last week that it was like, "I saw you name drops." And I was like, "Awesome. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you want to do?" And they didn't even, they just ghosted me because they just wanted somebody to open the door that day.

Karen Hall:
And I was trying to save them a crud ton of time like, "Are there rent backs? Because you're homeless currently." But they didn't want it. But it's you gravitated towards this program because it's the high hanging fruit and the relationships. It's not going to happen right now. Month one, month two that's a fluke. Month three, month four, you might have people start being interested in you, but you could just automatically go and start a relationship with somebody that you didn't know? So it just takes ... You've got to be consistent and do what your part and do your responsibility, or it's not going to work.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah.

Karen Hall:
But you're not going to know that for a year.

Tim Chermak:
If you do the work, it works.

Karen Hall:
If you do what you're supposed to do and you create content and you're vulnerable and you're brave and you do videos and you do things even when they don't make sense. If you just listen and do what it's told that you did. Like you hired you guys for a reason, now listen and do what you're advised to do because that's what you paid for. And if you do that, it will work. And it's probably around a year that'll work. But you got to tough it out.

Tim Chermak:
It's a funny, like looking back at even our relationship, there's been some random times where I've texted you or whatever and like, "Hey, get me a photo of you standing next to a listing sign, eating from a bag of movie theater popcorn." And you're probably thinking-

Karen Hall:
Pulling up. I'm like, "Like this?"

Tim Chermak:
Yeah. You're probably just thinking like, "What the hell does this have to do with anything?"

Karen Hall:
I was like-

Tim Chermak:
And then the ad-

Karen Hall:
And I'm a over thinker. So I'm like, "Like this, or like this? Like this, like this?" And I'm just like, "Here, just take these and use them."

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, and then the ad does super well. And you're kind of like, "Oh, I never would have thought that would have worked in my market, but it did."

Karen Hall:
Oh my God. Literally the one that you just said, send me a picture. What was it like, holding up four fingers or something. The picture, it's just me holding up my four fingers like this. I check the numbers on that thing are through the roof and people are still commenting on it.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, it just keeps you top of mind in a creative way.

Karen Hall:
But that's your job and that's what I trust in. So you're like, "Do this." I'm like, "Okay, it'll work." But that's it. You just got to, nothing happens overnight. But this program is magic because you're targeting the people that are farther out before they're working with the realtors, before they need to go see a house right now. Those are the people you're getting in front of because it's all these relationships. That's why my VIP program has the same people with me for 15 years. You're going for relationships. That takes time. It just does.

Tim Chermak:
Yeah, I mean, there's no shortcut. And that is the competitive advantage that because you can't shortcut the process, it means your competition can't either. And so that is the motor on your castle. Well, Karen thank you for joining us today. This has been really fun. I think this has definitely been one of the most valuable podcast episodes that we've done. And so thank you for your time and I'll see you this year at the Platform Mastermind.

Karen Hall:
I'm excited.